shadowman
2011-07-26 13:19:00 UTC
I have just finished reading two long term studies of the exclusion zones round the Chernobyl site. It’s been 25 years now, plenty of time for any effects of the contamination to have had its effects amongst rapidly reproducing biological organisms. It is worth bearing in mind that this reactor was running close to flat out when it blew (all the Fukushima reactors were scrammed) and the level of contamination was much greater (more than a factor of ten) and also included elements and isotopes considered more toxic to living organisms than those scattered in Fufushima.
One study was by Tim Mousseau and the other by Jim Smith, both well qualified scientists. Both looked at the most heavily contaminated areas where no decontamination work had been carried out and where measured contamination was many many times above the safe levels set by the IAEA.
The study by Jim focused on fast breeding small mammals where a large number of generations would have been born, lived, bread and died in this environment. Things like field mice and similar animals. They were looking for any genetic abnormalities, any biological issues, population health, life span etc to see what measurable effects living in the most hazardous areas had had with a view to establishing likely effects on humans. The results...... There were no measurable differences at all between the Chernobyl populations and similar populations elsewhere. Whatever they looked at was quite completely normal. When the study was widened to include insects and plants they again found no detectable effects at all. This after 25 years in the areas of highest contamination.
The study by Tim looked at population densities and this did seem to show a lowering of overall bird / insect populations across the areas although the direct linkage to the radiation contamination is unclear. They also claimed that bird brain size was measurable decreased although again this seemed to be over both clean and contaminated areas so I don’t think a causal effect was established.
The more actual research I read about the measured effects of low level radiation exposure the more confused I become as to why we are all so afraid. Of course in high levels it’s lethal (so is heat) but there seems to be almost no evidence at all that below a certain level (which is much higher than even Chernobyl produced in the local area) there are any measurable toxic effects at all.
You probably generate a higher theoretical risk from radiation on the flight to Japan than you would get from lining at the Jap GP circuit for a year. These are risk taking on the edge Moto GP riders, it can only be ignorance that keeps them away as the risk is nonexistent from Fukushima!!
KTM666
2011-07-26 13:40:00 UTC
I did think Casey Stoners statement
'' My future in motorcycle racing doesnt't go on for as long as the rest of my life...and I' m more worried about that'
a very strange statement to make by a man who competes in one of the most dangerous motor sports there is ....er do think somebody should tell him........
.
Dutch
2011-07-26 13:50:00 UTC
If he had some independent evidence to say the area or track was inherently dangerous, then maybe I'd understand, but he's just being Stoner the Moaner again.
What a knob. I hope the rest go, while he and Lorenzo sit the race out and lose points.
KTM666
2011-07-26 14:04:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2011-07-26 14:16:00 UTC
Post missing.
KTM666
2011-07-26 14:37:00 UTC
Dutch
2011-07-26 14:39:00 UTC
At the end of the day nothing is safe - not even fyling to Japan on a plane, and certainly not racing in motoGP. Regardless, Stoner needs to check the evidence for any genuine concerns before he speaks, and then MTFU.
shadowman
2011-07-26 14:43:00 UTC
The FIM have done a report
“Based on the estimate dose it can be said by no doubt that the radiation risk during the race event is negligible.” So says the official FIM report. So, will the ‘stars’ man up and get on with it – or will we see a mass boycott of the round by the riders? Time will tell.
Dutch
2011-07-26 14:55:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2011-07-26 16:10:00 UTC
46μSv, obtained by the yearly average dose of 2.4mSv (Unscear 2000).
Based on the estimate dose it can be said by no doubt that the radiation risk during the race event is
negligible.
Written in Motegi on July 22nd, 2011."
I'll get the popcorn out shall I?
shadowman
2011-07-26 17:01:00 UTC
I hope Hiroshima levels are low, I've spent 2 days there, 1 mostly wandering around the ground zero (under air zero?) point and viewing the museum etc they have now.
Radiation inspires fear very easily. I often have problems getting permission to work above decks on live transmitting radars.
I have to explain that all the time the array is spinning there really is no RF risk - if the arrays stops and the beam is "lingering" on the same azimuth that's when there is a hazard. (Our transmitters have a safety interlock that stops TX if the array stops turning, I can over-ride that for diagnostics.)
I also point out I'm more at risk by getting tw@ed 'round the head by a spinning S band array.
lc4
2011-07-26 18:05:00 UTC
Post missing.
lc4
2011-07-27 09:07:00 UTC
Fukushima is only about 80 miles from Motegi. They still have no control over these damaged reactors that are still emitting radiation into the atmosphere. Would be real nice to get rained on from clouds that have traveled across the area
Last I heard was that 15 of the 17 Moto GP riders had suggested that they might boycott the Japan GP, it was only Stoner and Lorenzo that had the balls to go on record with there opinions.
steeeve66
2011-07-27 09:12:00 UTC
Post missing.
KTM666
2011-07-27 10:01:00 UTC
Different circumstances I appreciate - and I'm sure you're better placed than I to explain it, but, for some, the perceived risks are just too high, and I count myself among them.
S
shadowman
2011-07-27 10:16:00 UTC
Post missing.
KTM666
2011-07-27 10:46:00 UTC
Post missing.
Aussieduke
2011-07-27 10:53:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2011-07-27 10:54:00 UTC
scamb66
2011-07-27 11:11:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2011-07-27 12:30:00 UTC
Scientists have not helped in their prediction on the outcomes of Chernobyl. Around 32 people died from heat or radiation injuries at the time of the incident and there has been a increase in thyroid cancer in children in the directly affected area but there has not been an increase in in the predicted leukaemia levels.
What did occur was that the psychological impact from the fear of radiation. In the two years following Chernobyl, 100 000-200 000 women in northern Europe aborted their unborn babies due to fear of mutations.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki blast resulted in increased birth defects from direct radiation or fallout whilst in the womb but studies have revealed no increase in the future generations.
At the very worst ,due to the distance from Fukashima, people in the Montegi area would be exposed to the stochastic effects of radiation, which is increased exposure over a long period, basically two fifths of sweet fudge all. Current background radiation in the Montegi area is lower than Pakistan, Hong Kong and Aberdeen (lots of granite buildings).
Inverse square law applies to radiation, double your distance, quarter your exposure.
If you are really worried about it, dont climb mountains, dont get in a plane, dont ever break any bones and if you are a whiney little Aussie (shame) dont bloody ride a bike........YOU MIGHT GET HURT.
Dutch
2011-07-27 13:05:00 UTC
What did occur was that the psychological impact from the fear of radiation. In the two years following Chernobyl, 100 000-200 000 women in northern Europe aborted their unborn babies due to fear of mutations.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki blast resulted in increased birth defects from direct radiation or fallout whilst in the womb but studies have revealed no increase in the future generations.
quote]
Not to mention increases in alcholism, drug use, depression and similar social effects resulting from the dislocation and not the radiation itself. Even the big majority of the thyroid issues could have been avoided with the timely distribution of Iodine tablets.
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself" not made for this situation exactly but not far off either!
lc4
2011-07-27 13:16:00 UTC
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/fim+ ... bout+japan
Now let's wait for Jorge and Stoner to do a U-Turn, so we can slag them off for being unprincipled, ....or they miss the race as promised, so we can slag them off for being wimps, disrespecting the Japanese people (and the home of Honda & Yamaha, who pay thier mortgages), while losing championship points.
Happy days. LOL.
scamb66
2011-07-27 14:24:00 UTC
Post missing.
MrZ32
2011-07-28 09:05:00 UTC
if you want something to seem safe, you can, dangerous... too easy. It all comes down to who pays for the tests and stats to be done.
That being said, being there for a weekend probably is not that bad. And you have to remember... these guys ride at stupidly fast speeds... chances are their logical side of the brain is not quite as developed.. hence radiation=terribly bad to them
shadowman
2011-07-28 09:46:00 UTC
Post missing.
tripoddave
2011-07-28 10:19:00 UTC
Does that mean that I can plan a trip there? I would just f*cking love to ride an enduro bike though some of those ruins and vehicle parks.
Only one concern:
As usual Casey Stoner has been misunderstood/misrepresented!
When he said: '' My future in motorcycle racing doesnt't go on for as long as the rest of my life...and I' m more worried about that"
He was supporting the decision to go to Motegi not saying he didn't want to go. He was saying he was more worried about the fact he has no idea what he will do after motorcycle racing than any residual radiation he might pick up. After all it was his team that made the point that you get more exposure traveling at high altitude after some of the Pramac guys started whining.
I'm not a Stoner fan (I don't subscribe to the personality cult thing) although I do admire the way he rides a bike. What bothers me is the slightly hysterical attacks he gets from some people the moment he opens his mouth.
shadowman
2011-07-28 10:48:00 UTC
Post missing.
MrZ32
2011-07-28 11:30:00 UTC
tbh i have not looked at the radiation levels of japan but it doesnt concern me as I have no intention of going there (however it is sad)
Crotchrockety
2011-07-28 14:12:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2011-07-28 15:19:00 UTC
Post missing.
DribbleDuke
2011-07-28 18:03:00 UTC
Is it safe? only Marathon Man knows for sure.
KTM666
2011-07-28 18:40:00 UTC
Colonel_Klinck
2011-07-28 18:51:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2011-07-29 21:16:00 UTC
Post missing.
Colonel_Klinck
2011-07-29 21:44:00 UTC
shadowman
2011-07-30 19:13:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2011-07-30 19:15:00 UTC
Post missing.
DribbleDuke
2011-07-30 20:31:00 UTC
Post missing.
loony888
2011-07-31 09:02:00 UTC
Whether his opinion on the safety of motegi is correct or not i can respect his decision (if in fact he has made a decision) on whether to go or not, for me it's good to see someone with the stones (get it? ) to stand up for ones self in the face of pressure from peers, sponsors, teams, ruling bodies etc. i don't get how you lot crucify the man for having an opinion, you lot spew forth yours with indignation, why can't he?
as for him riding moto gp and it being dangerous, well, it's his occupation, and while some of us do extremely dangerous work we do it day in and day out confident we're going home safe because of our training, experience, and the safety precautions put in place by WH&S etc. same for stoner and his fellow competitors.
I wonder how much financial pressure there is on the motogp circus to attend motegi, and what possible other reasons there may be for those saying it's safe, studies on radiation levels today are only valid for today, there's no guarantee the reactors are stable, who's to say they can't/won't degenerate further, you can't rely on the japanese to be forthright, they grossly underestimated the extent of the danger when it was happening.
paul
BASH69
2011-07-31 13:27:00 UTC
Post missing.
Crotchrockety
2011-07-31 13:29:00 UTC
Post missing.
loony888
2011-08-01 06:20:00 UTC