viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22857
And so now, we are part of the problem, by pandering to who exactly - KTM UK's lawyers?
Isn't the site hosted in the US (or did it recently get moved from MEDIATEMPLE.NET)? Did the registrant of record get transferred?
Yeah, I don't really buy that there's any liability to the site on this matter. I'm no attorney, nor claim to be. But then, there's no requirement to be so, to give one's opinion on this.
This capitulation is indeed shameful.
SDNerd
2014-03-10 19:53:00 UTC
BassAgent
2014-03-10 20:23:00 UTC
Go back in your cave nerd
SDNerd
2014-03-10 20:50:00 UTC
Yet another reason to be ashamed: ^^ as moderator.
BassAgent
2014-03-10 21:00:00 UTC
No. Just no reason to waste my time with you when you won't take your blinders off and are obviously ignoring things that have already been explained. Thank you, come again.
SDNerd
2014-03-10 21:08:00 UTC
I read the explanations, and again, don't see the supposed liability in it ... So yeah, if you're not interested in the topic, STFU.
BassAgent
2014-03-10 21:21:00 UTC
If you took time to understand the severity of the situation of the forum currently, and the possible outcome of litigation, you wouldn't be making this thread. Bye.
SDNerd
2014-03-10 21:36:00 UTC
What happened - I thought you were leaving? Damn drama queens, just gotta attention whore to the end.
All I know is what I've read. That's all there is. Taking any additional time on it, won't change my viewpoint. That being, I don't see any real legal liability to the forum. Don't think these attorney's would be able to put a halt to anything here, unless we are in some sort of unauthorized IP use situation.
So go ahead smart guy - why don't you further the explanation, with what isn't in the locked thread. Or in your case, is it:
1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
All I know is what I've read. That's all there is. Taking any additional time on it, won't change my viewpoint. That being, I don't see any real legal liability to the forum. Don't think these attorney's would be able to put a halt to anything here, unless we are in some sort of unauthorized IP use situation.
So go ahead smart guy - why don't you further the explanation, with what isn't in the locked thread. Or in your case, is it:
1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
81forest
2014-03-10 22:18:00 UTC
Online defamation suits are a weird area of the law. Not my area of expertise but section 230 of the Communications Decency Act covers this stuff, and it basically immunizes service providers and "users" that post defamatory online statements from liability. "Users" in this situation being a website like SDNet, that "post or republish on the Internet a defamatory statement authored by a third party." Not to say they couldn't come after Jim H for defamation, but the best defense to libel is proving the truth of your statement, which it sounds like he was prepared to do.
I don't know what jurisdiction the site falls under, however. The UK is obviously not bound by the CDA.
All that aside, I totally understand the decision of the mods, given the tenuous control/ownership situation with the site. And most importantly, Jim H supports and agrees with their decision to delete that post. Jim H, I wish you all the best and I can tell that you have the fighting spirit to fully recover from this nightmare. Cheers to you, and I hope the foul taste of corporate KTM does not turn your appetite from bikes in general. If you don't mind going slow and looking weird, you might give a BMW airhead a try.
I don't know what jurisdiction the site falls under, however. The UK is obviously not bound by the CDA.
All that aside, I totally understand the decision of the mods, given the tenuous control/ownership situation with the site. And most importantly, Jim H supports and agrees with their decision to delete that post. Jim H, I wish you all the best and I can tell that you have the fighting spirit to fully recover from this nightmare. Cheers to you, and I hope the foul taste of corporate KTM does not turn your appetite from bikes in general. If you don't mind going slow and looking weird, you might give a BMW airhead a try.
Crotchrockety
2014-03-11 05:10:00 UTC
Post missing.
MrZ32
2014-03-11 11:22:00 UTC
No let the liars. .. I mean lawyers sue the owner of the site.
I want to see them waste their money trying to get it or of him. Lol. I'm sure he would have laughed about thumbing it to the man like that.
Personally. .. ktm fooked up big time. .. im glad someone has had the patience to fight the good fight for all us ungrateful barstards.
The worst of all was the cf tanks from a few years make. Ktm should be ashamed.
The only reason that they have got away with it is that their bikes are so fun and they aren't Japanese. .. So is expected to have issues and is accepted.
A Japanese company would be destroyed for such a retarded design.
I want to see them waste their money trying to get it or of him. Lol. I'm sure he would have laughed about thumbing it to the man like that.
Personally. .. ktm fooked up big time. .. im glad someone has had the patience to fight the good fight for all us ungrateful barstards.
The worst of all was the cf tanks from a few years make. Ktm should be ashamed.
The only reason that they have got away with it is that their bikes are so fun and they aren't Japanese. .. So is expected to have issues and is accepted.
A Japanese company would be destroyed for such a retarded design.
Luxamor
2014-03-11 13:31:00 UTC
I'm good with the mods' decision too. It's your site. Do what you like.
Jim H has had an impact either way, otherwise there wouldn't have been this acknowledgment.
I see and read topics related to his fight elsewhere. I've seen it mentioned on YouTube and brought up at my dealer.
This flame has been lit and KTM will need to put it out. Hopefully this is done in a responsible fashion with respect shown for Jim H's intelligence and righteous effort.
Jim H has had an impact either way, otherwise there wouldn't have been this acknowledgment.
I see and read topics related to his fight elsewhere. I've seen it mentioned on YouTube and brought up at my dealer.
This flame has been lit and KTM will need to put it out. Hopefully this is done in a responsible fashion with respect shown for Jim H's intelligence and righteous effort.
Aphex
2014-03-11 14:15:00 UTC
I'm going to have my lawyers contact the site and have Assagents posts removed as well then, since everyone can be bullied so easily.
Shitty, but everyone's ignorance of the law is being taken advantage of by these lawyers.
Shitty, but everyone's ignorance of the law is being taken advantage of by these lawyers.
Jim H
2014-03-11 16:43:00 UTC
Post missing.
jambox
2014-03-11 18:04:00 UTC
Post missing.
Stupid Luke
2014-03-11 22:55:00 UTC
Hope KTM's lawyers dont monitor the KTM Forum as I just called all of KTM's top management an international paedophile ring in 'the birth of the beast thread'.
stalker
2014-03-11 23:00:00 UTC
Post missing.
Luxamor
2014-03-12 00:04:00 UTC
Post missing.
BassAgent
2014-03-12 04:19:00 UTC
Post missing.
ktmguy
2014-03-12 07:59:00 UTC
Post missing.
BassAgent
2014-03-12 08:27:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-13 04:34:00 UTC
Last October when I returned to the UK after 6 months away went into the garage and pulled the covers off the bikes...... The empty tank on my SD had decided to shed its skin, the paint was all crazed and cracked with an area approx 6 inches square with no paint at all, the flakes lay on the carpet under the bike......
The paintwork on my 13 year old TL1000s was still gleaming from its last polish as was my 12 year old R1, The 25 year old Dream Machine paint job on my RD400 which I have not touched for a while was still perfect to.....
Warm dry insulated garage with carpet on the floor!
KTM you are DISGUSTING
The paintwork on my 13 year old TL1000s was still gleaming from its last polish as was my 12 year old R1, The 25 year old Dream Machine paint job on my RD400 which I have not touched for a while was still perfect to.....
Warm dry insulated garage with carpet on the floor!
KTM you are DISGUSTING
Jim H
2014-03-17 14:31:00 UTC
Post missing.
paul81
2014-03-17 15:03:00 UTC
1st to sdnerd the post was locked by request of the OP, why then would you drag it up again? and if you don't like members of the moderating team you can always find another forum to drag down.
2nd to bassagent, if a member of any other forum were talking to another member like that the ban hammer would come out, why is this person getting away with talking like that to mods that here?
it's obvious sdnerd has a disliking of you and though everyone has a right to an opinion, some should keep their opinions to themselves. if were up to me i'd ban him, and lock this thread.
keep up the good work BA.
2nd to bassagent, if a member of any other forum were talking to another member like that the ban hammer would come out, why is this person getting away with talking like that to mods that here?
it's obvious sdnerd has a disliking of you and though everyone has a right to an opinion, some should keep their opinions to themselves. if were up to me i'd ban him, and lock this thread.
keep up the good work BA.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-17 15:25:00 UTC
Post missing.
Jim H
2014-03-17 15:56:00 UTC
I must be cursed.
No chance of my case going above fast track. That's £31k gone just like that.
I will be representing myself now in court, KTM/Black Horse will probably get out of bringing the bike to court so I will have to get the copy of the Inspector's report asap. No doubt he somehow failed to follow my instructions so I won't be surprised if he didn't take any photos (read between the lines). In short, my only hope is identifying that I have been defrauded which I'm still convinced that I have been hence this will end in court as I've nothing left to lose.
I understand now why people take drastic measures when such sickening failures of opponents & justice ruin people's lives. Especially as my complaint isn't isolated, is legitimate and serious in its nature. I wish nothing but the worst for the whole of KTM I really do.
No chance of my case going above fast track. That's £31k gone just like that.
I will be representing myself now in court, KTM/Black Horse will probably get out of bringing the bike to court so I will have to get the copy of the Inspector's report asap. No doubt he somehow failed to follow my instructions so I won't be surprised if he didn't take any photos (read between the lines). In short, my only hope is identifying that I have been defrauded which I'm still convinced that I have been hence this will end in court as I've nothing left to lose.
I understand now why people take drastic measures when such sickening failures of opponents & justice ruin people's lives. Especially as my complaint isn't isolated, is legitimate and serious in its nature. I wish nothing but the worst for the whole of KTM I really do.
Linga
2014-03-17 17:08:00 UTC
It sounds horrible for Jim. I hope you get some justice mate.
Jim H
2014-03-17 19:26:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-17 20:05:00 UTC
Day 56: Jim is very cross.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-17 20:07:00 UTC
Jim I can promise you that none of us have any affiliation with KTM in any way, shape or form. If I did I'd have a shiny 1290 sat in the garage right now
I think everyone on this forum sympathises with your situation. I would imagine the vast majority of members who have removed their tanks have had a problem fitting it again. And lots have had problems with the paint bubbling, peeling or cracking. To take on the likes of KTM and Ducati in the US, which is the home of litigation, it took a lot of people getting together to do it. Fair play to you for tying it here.
I can promise you the only motives the mods have is to protect the forum as a whole as we've previously stated. That's it, pure and simple.
I think everyone on this forum sympathises with your situation. I would imagine the vast majority of members who have removed their tanks have had a problem fitting it again. And lots have had problems with the paint bubbling, peeling or cracking. To take on the likes of KTM and Ducati in the US, which is the home of litigation, it took a lot of people getting together to do it. Fair play to you for tying it here.
I can promise you the only motives the mods have is to protect the forum as a whole as we've previously stated. That's it, pure and simple.
BassAgent
2014-03-17 20:10:00 UTC
Post missing.
Linga
2014-03-17 20:11:00 UTC
It would be nice if all the boys in the UK who had dodgy tanks stop firm with Jim.
Maybe just photographs for his court case of all the different tanks?
I feel for you mate and sympathies that it must be hard not to just do your bottle at everyone to let out the frustration.
Easy to see both sides from a distance and both suck.
What do ya reckon guys? Could we get photos of a few different tanks?
Maybe just photographs for his court case of all the different tanks?
I feel for you mate and sympathies that it must be hard not to just do your bottle at everyone to let out the frustration.
Easy to see both sides from a distance and both suck.
What do ya reckon guys? Could we get photos of a few different tanks?
BassAgent
2014-03-17 20:14:00 UTC
I could send photos of my tank, It's expanded quite a bit and is a huge motherfucker to get back on. I had to get a bolt and not the hold it down in the front (which I have to forcefully pry into place)
No. 47
2014-03-17 20:18:00 UTC
Agreed and would do but not had these problems.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-17 20:34:00 UTC
I can't send pics as I no longer have the 06 tank in it's original state. Paint bubbled and I got it rubbed down and resprayed as it was out of warranty. Sorry I would help if I could.
Linga
2014-03-17 20:57:00 UTC
I have also had no probs but I'm sure we can muster up a few between us
Jim H
2014-03-17 21:07:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-17 21:24:00 UTC
My tanks never look any different.
If a picture with a sworn statement that "It was a bit tricky to refit" helps then fill yer boots.
If a picture with a sworn statement that "It was a bit tricky to refit" helps then fill yer boots.
Jim H
2014-03-17 21:47:00 UTC
Post missing.
BassAgent
2014-03-17 21:58:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-17 22:02:00 UTC
I have 2 spare tanks, one is mint and the other was purchased with a small mark on it.
Since 2006 I've only used the bike on track, so I've gathered a decent collection of spares.
I've had a small problem with tank expansion a few times, although TBH I quickly developed a method of getting it secured with minimal additional effort. As I said, I've never observed any visual difference in the tank. On the occasions I've had the fuel pump out I didn't notice anything.
Jim, you sound like a know-it-all prick who always assumes he is in the right.
Just because the tank issue makes owning the superduke a nightmare for you, don't assume it's such a big issue for others. Some of us either have not suffered from many problems, or have worked 'round the problems we encountered.
I would be very pleased to hear this all goes in your favour.
If it doesn't, at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you're in the right.
Since 2006 I've only used the bike on track, so I've gathered a decent collection of spares.
I've had a small problem with tank expansion a few times, although TBH I quickly developed a method of getting it secured with minimal additional effort. As I said, I've never observed any visual difference in the tank. On the occasions I've had the fuel pump out I didn't notice anything.
Jim, you sound like a know-it-all prick who always assumes he is in the right.
Just because the tank issue makes owning the superduke a nightmare for you, don't assume it's such a big issue for others. Some of us either have not suffered from many problems, or have worked 'round the problems we encountered.
I would be very pleased to hear this all goes in your favour.
If it doesn't, at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you're in the right.
No. 47
2014-03-17 22:04:00 UTC
No.47, this is the 2nd time you've posted that the problem doesn't affect you. Congratulations, I'm please for you. So why the hollow agreement?
Empathy.
Empathy.
Jim H
2014-03-17 22:18:00 UTC
Post missing.
Linga
2014-03-17 22:29:00 UTC
I feel for you too mate, try and take a breath and gather your thoughts for a little.
You are nearly at the end and you don't want to throw away any chance you have.
I have a spare tank that I'm willing to get tested if you tell me how.
I'm short on cash at the moment, but if it doesn't cost too much and we can get it certified to stand in court I'm willing.
But you really need to take a breath mate, railing at everyone wildly will not in any way damage KTM, only yourself.
You are nearly at the end and you don't want to throw away any chance you have.
I have a spare tank that I'm willing to get tested if you tell me how.
I'm short on cash at the moment, but if it doesn't cost too much and we can get it certified to stand in court I'm willing.
But you really need to take a breath mate, railing at everyone wildly will not in any way damage KTM, only yourself.
Jim H
2014-03-17 23:08:00 UTC
Post missing.
Jim H
2014-03-17 23:26:00 UTC
Post missing.
paul81
2014-03-17 23:31:00 UTC
Post missing.
Jim H
2014-03-17 23:50:00 UTC
I wasn't being abusive, just being direct as many are on this forum. If I took it the wrong way, it's my mistake, just as I feel I've been misunderstood.
I don't agree with this remark concerning alienation, again, I'm in company who admit issues, have extra tanks only to front up to me when I'm being direct. The whole purpose of this exercise is to help. I'm almost certain now this had been in vain.
It's ok, I'll be gone soon.
I don't agree with this remark concerning alienation, again, I'm in company who admit issues, have extra tanks only to front up to me when I'm being direct. The whole purpose of this exercise is to help. I'm almost certain now this had been in vain.
It's ok, I'll be gone soon.
jambox
2014-03-18 00:02:00 UTC
Jim, if I can find the pics of my previous tank which suffered "the mumps/pimples" I'll gladly let you use them along with my details. But unfortunately so far I've only found one email I sent regarding it, but no pics as this was back in 2011.
I'll be putting mine back OTR next month, I'll have a good look at the current tank (bought it off eBay as wasn't getting any response regarding my other one) and if I find anything I'll send it your way. I think I remember the paint flaking, but that's it, although it's been over a year since I last saw it so there might be other things happening now.
I'll be putting mine back OTR next month, I'll have a good look at the current tank (bought it off eBay as wasn't getting any response regarding my other one) and if I find anything I'll send it your way. I think I remember the paint flaking, but that's it, although it's been over a year since I last saw it so there might be other things happening now.
DribbleDuke
2014-03-18 00:19:00 UTC
This tank subject needs a poll to get an idea of how and how many have been infected, I mean effected
Jim H
2014-03-18 00:41:00 UTC
Post missing.
DribbleDuke
2014-03-18 00:55:00 UTC
Post missing.
Jim H
2014-03-18 03:16:00 UTC
My tank looks great still, but when I have to remove it getting it back on is far from easy.
And that is after the rear bushings and such have been modified.
I'm not on here a lot, and miss many posts. But what is required of the tank to be tested and would it help at this point?
And that is after the rear bushings and such have been modified.
I'm not on here a lot, and miss many posts. But what is required of the tank to be tested and would it help at this point?
Jim H
2014-03-18 03:20:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 03:25:00 UTC
Post missing.
MrZ32
2014-03-18 04:48:00 UTC
I can take some photos when I get back to the UK at the end of April, I was so disgusted last year I just threw the cover back on the bike and left it in its corner,
The year before I tried storing with the tank brimmed full of Shell V power with fuel stabilzer...... but the tank had developed the 'Mumps" in various places when I checked it after 3 months, draining the tank and undoing the steering head retaining bolt the tank expanded forward so much that it touched the top yoke.... the force of the expansion was enough to mark the tank! thats 100% a safety issue right there!!
I think what has happened storing the tank dry is that it has shrunk, thats why the paint has crazed and is peeling off, also the KTM carbon tank protector had lifted off as it no longer fits the shape of the now smaller tank..........
As I said truly disgusting.... had I bought this bike from a KTM dealer I would be persuing a new tank for sure, KTM refusing would have me turning up at the NEC KTM stand etc to display my lovely tank
The year before I tried storing with the tank brimmed full of Shell V power with fuel stabilzer...... but the tank had developed the 'Mumps" in various places when I checked it after 3 months, draining the tank and undoing the steering head retaining bolt the tank expanded forward so much that it touched the top yoke.... the force of the expansion was enough to mark the tank! thats 100% a safety issue right there!!
I think what has happened storing the tank dry is that it has shrunk, thats why the paint has crazed and is peeling off, also the KTM carbon tank protector had lifted off as it no longer fits the shape of the now smaller tank..........
As I said truly disgusting.... had I bought this bike from a KTM dealer I would be persuing a new tank for sure, KTM refusing would have me turning up at the NEC KTM stand etc to display my lovely tank
Linga
2014-03-18 05:50:00 UTC
I am in complete agreement with russ on this one. . Disgust is a great description
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 06:17:00 UTC
Jim H
Start a poll.
Keep all defamatory info from it, just the basics of what you need to know.
Mumps
Paint flake
Deformation
Pimples
Fine
Don't accuse, just keep it to basic numbers and we'll try and get pics.
I'm serious on the testing. Speak to your lawyer and see what is needed to prove and I'll do it.
Start a poll.
Keep all defamatory info from it, just the basics of what you need to know.
Mumps
Paint flake
Deformation
Pimples
Fine
Don't accuse, just keep it to basic numbers and we'll try and get pics.
I'm serious on the testing. Speak to your lawyer and see what is needed to prove and I'll do it.
ktmguy
2014-03-18 06:25:00 UTC
Post missing.
bic_bicknell
2014-03-18 06:58:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 07:30:00 UTC
I've now owned KTM bikes since 2000 so that's nearly 14 years. In that time I've grown to love their bikes, they combine solid engineering, common sense mechanics and perform great. They crash well, are easy to work on and repair and, (after years of Ducati ownership), amazing cheap for spares. I've never had a problem with supply or availability of parts and even the most obscure bits arrive in days if ordered on line or on the phone.
I'm my experience the KTM service/human side of the equation is directly down to the dealer and the staff who run the operation. Nothing to do with KTM. Places like Bracken, (now gone), Jim Aim, Hemmel KTM are brilliant places with helpful, knowledgeable people who will do everything to sort you out. Places like Laguna, P&H etc. are just franchises and the staff are not KTM enthusiasts or know anything about what they are selling and the mechanics are just generalists.
Even though I bought my SD new I've never had a reason to claim anything under warranty so have no experience of this so I can't comment or pass judgement.
I've been critical recently of KTM's launch strategy for the new 1290 but it hasn't really changed my view of KTM ownership, just my view of their marketing and way they supply bikes. I am sympathetic to Jim and have supported him as much as I can through this site, on the various threads etc. I also appreciate that he took on a huge challenge in litigating against a global company and has invested a huge amount of time and effort and money but also recognise that KTM will defend their position, just from a financial logical stand point. As we've all had to accept, they are not going to publicly admit that there is a problem with the manufacture of this tank. It doesn't make them evil, they are just behaving in the expected corporate manner. Otherwise you might as well hate, rail against every company in the world.
Let's support Jim where we can and stop bickering amongst ourselves.
I will have a look back brought my obsessive photo collection because I think I have a few pictures of large screwdrivers being used to lever back the tank so I can get the front bolt in. But they don't show any visible damage to the tank, all the scratches are ones I've made myself doing this technique over the years. As Pete says, I've just come to find ways around it.
I'm my experience the KTM service/human side of the equation is directly down to the dealer and the staff who run the operation. Nothing to do with KTM. Places like Bracken, (now gone), Jim Aim, Hemmel KTM are brilliant places with helpful, knowledgeable people who will do everything to sort you out. Places like Laguna, P&H etc. are just franchises and the staff are not KTM enthusiasts or know anything about what they are selling and the mechanics are just generalists.
Even though I bought my SD new I've never had a reason to claim anything under warranty so have no experience of this so I can't comment or pass judgement.
I've been critical recently of KTM's launch strategy for the new 1290 but it hasn't really changed my view of KTM ownership, just my view of their marketing and way they supply bikes. I am sympathetic to Jim and have supported him as much as I can through this site, on the various threads etc. I also appreciate that he took on a huge challenge in litigating against a global company and has invested a huge amount of time and effort and money but also recognise that KTM will defend their position, just from a financial logical stand point. As we've all had to accept, they are not going to publicly admit that there is a problem with the manufacture of this tank. It doesn't make them evil, they are just behaving in the expected corporate manner. Otherwise you might as well hate, rail against every company in the world.
Let's support Jim where we can and stop bickering amongst ourselves.
I will have a look back brought my obsessive photo collection because I think I have a few pictures of large screwdrivers being used to lever back the tank so I can get the front bolt in. But they don't show any visible damage to the tank, all the scratches are ones I've made myself doing this technique over the years. As Pete says, I've just come to find ways around it.
Stupid Luke
2014-03-18 08:03:00 UTC
Going through this forum you could make a substantial list of component failures that KTM should be taking responsibility for, warranty or not......
There are enough posts from different owners in differing countries about these faults together with photographic evidence to prove these are facts, just because you or I dont have the particular problem now does not mean KTM are good old boys who design and build great motorcycles and should be defended.....
They aint and they dont
There are enough posts from different owners in differing countries about these faults together with photographic evidence to prove these are facts, just because you or I dont have the particular problem now does not mean KTM are good old boys who design and build great motorcycles and should be defended.....
They aint and they dont
ktmguy
2014-03-18 08:08:00 UTC
I have owned KTM's since 2007. Each winter they are put away in the garage, but not stored, should a nice day appear they may get used. I have never had an issue with this until this year.
Last weekend I took the SDR for its first ride since Nov. I noticed a few little bobbles on the tank. The RC8 was worse though, it looks like Stevie Wonder's phonebook. Neither tank has noticeably expanded but neither has been removed from the bike.
It seems we either started getting ethenol in our fuel or had an increase in its content last summer so both bikes would have contained this 'new fuel mix' for the first time this winter.
So I had a little dig around and it seems that KTM, MV, Aprilia, Ducati and Triumph have all used tanks made by Acerbis. Triumph now seem to have gone back to an ali tank, on Sprint GT at least. There is various stuff on other owners forums about this if you google Acerbis and or Ethenol fuel. MAG are campaigning to the government about Ethenol in fuel whilst the bike manufacturers and dealers seem set on a policy of denial.
I rang a few dealers yesterday and they acted out a little pantomime of suprise ' oh, but I have heard of someone having this problem a few years back'. Their solutions were variously to buy a new tank(790 quid!!) or get mine repainted (although they admitted it would probably happen again) or bizarrely to leave the bike out in the sun in the hope the blisters would reduce. I only phoned the dealers previously thought to be knowledgeable and enthusiasts and I am sure the local multifranchise would have been less helpful still.
What is significant to me though is that one of the dealers is advertising on e bay 14 RC8 used tanks all with 'some blistering' for 70 quid each. If they have changed 14 tanks surely they must be aware the problem is bigger than they are willing to admit. If folk are buying slightly blistered tanks surely it means their own tanks are worse? Also, did 14 owners all stump up 800 quid for new tanks? Or were these warranty / goodwill replacements, in which case KTM UK must have been consulted.
It does seem there is cover up by the manufacturers and dealers combined with individual owners sticking their heads in the sand here. Unless something has changed with the manufacturing process or material used then surely this will continue to be a problem on 1290 SD and the smug owners on here that dont have the problem may well get it in the future. If we are getting tanks painted we are just aiding the manufacturers in their cover up?
I suspect that when Ducati had to replace tanks in the US the replacement costs were passed back to Acerbis. I also suspect other manufacturers watched this action closely and developed their own coping stategies for their worldwide markets. It seems the strategy for the UK is denial followed by divide and conquer.
Last weekend I took the SDR for its first ride since Nov. I noticed a few little bobbles on the tank. The RC8 was worse though, it looks like Stevie Wonder's phonebook. Neither tank has noticeably expanded but neither has been removed from the bike.
It seems we either started getting ethenol in our fuel or had an increase in its content last summer so both bikes would have contained this 'new fuel mix' for the first time this winter.
So I had a little dig around and it seems that KTM, MV, Aprilia, Ducati and Triumph have all used tanks made by Acerbis. Triumph now seem to have gone back to an ali tank, on Sprint GT at least. There is various stuff on other owners forums about this if you google Acerbis and or Ethenol fuel. MAG are campaigning to the government about Ethenol in fuel whilst the bike manufacturers and dealers seem set on a policy of denial.
I rang a few dealers yesterday and they acted out a little pantomime of suprise ' oh, but I have heard of someone having this problem a few years back'. Their solutions were variously to buy a new tank(790 quid!!) or get mine repainted (although they admitted it would probably happen again) or bizarrely to leave the bike out in the sun in the hope the blisters would reduce. I only phoned the dealers previously thought to be knowledgeable and enthusiasts and I am sure the local multifranchise would have been less helpful still.
What is significant to me though is that one of the dealers is advertising on e bay 14 RC8 used tanks all with 'some blistering' for 70 quid each. If they have changed 14 tanks surely they must be aware the problem is bigger than they are willing to admit. If folk are buying slightly blistered tanks surely it means their own tanks are worse? Also, did 14 owners all stump up 800 quid for new tanks? Or were these warranty / goodwill replacements, in which case KTM UK must have been consulted.
It does seem there is cover up by the manufacturers and dealers combined with individual owners sticking their heads in the sand here. Unless something has changed with the manufacturing process or material used then surely this will continue to be a problem on 1290 SD and the smug owners on here that dont have the problem may well get it in the future. If we are getting tanks painted we are just aiding the manufacturers in their cover up?
I suspect that when Ducati had to replace tanks in the US the replacement costs were passed back to Acerbis. I also suspect other manufacturers watched this action closely and developed their own coping stategies for their worldwide markets. It seems the strategy for the UK is denial followed by divide and conquer.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 08:11:00 UTC
Post missing.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-18 08:17:00 UTC
I called a couple of bike paint companies after finding my latest issue, both said they can repaint the tank but wont guarantee the paintwork coz its a KTM plastic tank...........
stalker
2014-03-18 08:55:00 UTC
Problem with your last paragraph Guy is that they would then be setting a precedent of replacing an out of warranty fuel tank. With forums ect word would spread quickly and they would be replacing loads of them. This is the thing they are probably trying to avoid.
Jim did you contact any consumer groups for advice on this?
Jim did you contact any consumer groups for advice on this?
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 09:22:00 UTC
Post missing.
bic_bicknell
2014-03-18 09:30:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 09:31:00 UTC
Every bike I've ever known has had a set of unique problems associated with e design and - ultimately - ownership.
My Kawasaki triples all had a propensity for the middle cylinder to run hot or flood when cold. The little end bearings were notorious for oil starvation and end up rattling and the footrest gear lineages were so bad that your whole leg had to move in order to change up a gear. And I'm not going to even start on the inadequate frame issues.
My Ducati's all had massive problems with carb icing in the winter. They were so bad people were selling retrofit kits that heated them to stop it happening because the bike became unridable. The rectifiers were so bad, even worse than other bikes suffering from this problem. Everyone knew it.
Mid 80's Kawasaki finishes were so bad that they were rusting and flaking before they were three months old. The chrome was so thin you could see the cheap metal through the surface and things like mudguards would hole through in less than a year.
I also seem to remember that Russ' beloved TL models all suffered from a little problem involving a rotary damper? didn't seem to stop people loving them for their great assets and overlooking the drawbacks. I can't remember what Suzukis official stance was about this but didn't they just retrofit a steering damper which didn't solve or admit a problem, just masked the consequence.
My Kawasaki triples all had a propensity for the middle cylinder to run hot or flood when cold. The little end bearings were notorious for oil starvation and end up rattling and the footrest gear lineages were so bad that your whole leg had to move in order to change up a gear. And I'm not going to even start on the inadequate frame issues.
My Ducati's all had massive problems with carb icing in the winter. They were so bad people were selling retrofit kits that heated them to stop it happening because the bike became unridable. The rectifiers were so bad, even worse than other bikes suffering from this problem. Everyone knew it.
Mid 80's Kawasaki finishes were so bad that they were rusting and flaking before they were three months old. The chrome was so thin you could see the cheap metal through the surface and things like mudguards would hole through in less than a year.
I also seem to remember that Russ' beloved TL models all suffered from a little problem involving a rotary damper? didn't seem to stop people loving them for their great assets and overlooking the drawbacks. I can't remember what Suzukis official stance was about this but didn't they just retrofit a steering damper which didn't solve or admit a problem, just masked the consequence.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-18 09:47:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-18 13:12:00 UTC
Thing is a petrol tank potentially pissing petrol all over a hot engine/exhaust isn't really the same as one not fitting correctly or paint bubbling is it. I would imagine their lawyers looked at this and said they were extremely exposed if death or horrific burns resulted from this failure. Kawasaki fitted a damper to the Widow Maker Zx10 as it was a major safety issue. I'm not trying to defend KTM as I believe they should indeed replace tanks with these issues but it's not really in the same league.
SDNerd
2014-03-18 14:08:00 UTC
Post missing.
Stupid Luke
2014-03-18 14:26:00 UTC
Post missing.
bic_bicknell
2014-03-18 16:38:00 UTC
Post missing.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-18 16:57:00 UTC
Well, I 'm not going to get into talking about this anymore but how about this Nerdy baby........
My Panasonic Viera massive wide screen, 3D, High def, top of the range television lasted one year and one month before it completely broke two weeks ago. Panasonic wouldn't honour any sort of guarantee because we'd forgotten to post off the form that came with the set when new, (house moving time). Luckily I found a telly repair center who have managed to fix it and claim against Panasonic but this is down to them not the manufacturer.
Local telly place...score!
Panasonic........nil.
My Ford Galaxy has just blown it's turbo. Only done 40,000 miles. No chance of any help from Ford. "Oh yes they all do that mate". Local garage willing to replace with pattern part but still £1,500. Willing to fit a recon turbo if I source one from elsewhere for about £250.
Local car place....score,
Ford.........nil.
My Kenwood stainless steel dishwasher was only used for six months before we moved and it was put into storage. Just plumbed it into my new kitchen and it doesn't pump water any more. Having rung a few repair centers they all reliably inform me that the cost of replacing the main pump is uneconomical and I should scrap it. That's only six mons use for a £400 machine.
Kenwood.......nil.
My six year old Superduke 990 with a modest but very hard ridden 16,000 miles on road and track has not had a problem in all this time. I've crashed it at tracks, ridden it through every winter in every weather type. Done Sunday blasts through to long distance journeys and commuting to work.
I've changed it, modded it, improved it, blinged it. Every time I needed something from KTM, I got it.
KTM and Superduke........score!
My Panasonic Viera massive wide screen, 3D, High def, top of the range television lasted one year and one month before it completely broke two weeks ago. Panasonic wouldn't honour any sort of guarantee because we'd forgotten to post off the form that came with the set when new, (house moving time). Luckily I found a telly repair center who have managed to fix it and claim against Panasonic but this is down to them not the manufacturer.
Local telly place...score!
Panasonic........nil.
My Ford Galaxy has just blown it's turbo. Only done 40,000 miles. No chance of any help from Ford. "Oh yes they all do that mate". Local garage willing to replace with pattern part but still £1,500. Willing to fit a recon turbo if I source one from elsewhere for about £250.
Local car place....score,
Ford.........nil.
My Kenwood stainless steel dishwasher was only used for six months before we moved and it was put into storage. Just plumbed it into my new kitchen and it doesn't pump water any more. Having rung a few repair centers they all reliably inform me that the cost of replacing the main pump is uneconomical and I should scrap it. That's only six mons use for a £400 machine.
Kenwood.......nil.
My six year old Superduke 990 with a modest but very hard ridden 16,000 miles on road and track has not had a problem in all this time. I've crashed it at tracks, ridden it through every winter in every weather type. Done Sunday blasts through to long distance journeys and commuting to work.
I've changed it, modded it, improved it, blinged it. Every time I needed something from KTM, I got it.
KTM and Superduke........score!
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-18 17:40:00 UTC
Post missing.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-18 17:45:00 UTC
Post missing.
SDNerd
2014-03-18 18:09:00 UTC
Wasn't my intent to air all the issues of all the product failings I've endured in the last decade (don't ever get me started on Samsung 8000 series LED TVs ... or Samsung's absolute customer support failings) - but to center around modern motorcycles, and Let's say for discussion sake, those built in the last decade.
Motorcycles - like cars - are not ordinary consumer goods. The street-going variety require special licensing to operate in most corners of the planet, and many of us here have suffered the "teething" problems of new models, and non-supportive manufacturers (going back 20, 30, or even more years for some of us ... ).
Bic, I am glad your example of an SD has been flawless. I wish mine was. I sincerely wish everyone's was. I would state however - based on the remarks of others - that this is an anomaly. Consider how many threads and posts on this forum, that are dedicated to flawed components or failed elements of design (engineering). The 990 SD variants are a long, long way from the refinement and reliability of the Japanese motorcycle products. For many, it's this near-perfection that people actually dislike. If there wasn't a love for anachronisms, H-D would have long been written off into history. I can understand it to some extent. But KTM touts itself as a modern manufacturing enterprise, and commands a premium a for its products. A premium beyond even its Italian and German counterparts - model-for-model.
Regardless what other manufacturers do - my focus is on KTM. Not in 20+ years have I had as many issues with a motorcycle, nor have I endured such poor customer support WRT the product's flaws. The flaws with their products added to their high cost (spares here are expensive compared to any other manufacturer), render KTMs as a poor value. This will be a weighting consideration in my next "daily ride" purchase.
I am in no hurry to run out and buy the new SD - not available here yet anyway. I'll keep mine running (and thrashing it) until I've experienced all of what's soon to land in out market place, and I'm ready for something else.
I continue to enjoy my 990 SD, but always nagging in the back of my mind is "what's going to break next" ...
Motorcycles - like cars - are not ordinary consumer goods. The street-going variety require special licensing to operate in most corners of the planet, and many of us here have suffered the "teething" problems of new models, and non-supportive manufacturers (going back 20, 30, or even more years for some of us ... ).
Bic, I am glad your example of an SD has been flawless. I wish mine was. I sincerely wish everyone's was. I would state however - based on the remarks of others - that this is an anomaly. Consider how many threads and posts on this forum, that are dedicated to flawed components or failed elements of design (engineering). The 990 SD variants are a long, long way from the refinement and reliability of the Japanese motorcycle products. For many, it's this near-perfection that people actually dislike. If there wasn't a love for anachronisms, H-D would have long been written off into history. I can understand it to some extent. But KTM touts itself as a modern manufacturing enterprise, and commands a premium a for its products. A premium beyond even its Italian and German counterparts - model-for-model.
Regardless what other manufacturers do - my focus is on KTM. Not in 20+ years have I had as many issues with a motorcycle, nor have I endured such poor customer support WRT the product's flaws. The flaws with their products added to their high cost (spares here are expensive compared to any other manufacturer), render KTMs as a poor value. This will be a weighting consideration in my next "daily ride" purchase.
I am in no hurry to run out and buy the new SD - not available here yet anyway. I'll keep mine running (and thrashing it) until I've experienced all of what's soon to land in out market place, and I'm ready for something else.
I continue to enjoy my 990 SD, but always nagging in the back of my mind is "what's going to break next" ...
shadowman
2014-03-18 19:54:00 UTC
Best commercial customer service I know of - Lexus. Never had one myself but a good friend did and they treated him like a king. Every problem no matter how trivial taken seriously and sorted quickly.
Worst in my experience is probably BT. Good products but almost impossible to communicate with.
KTM - mine is from 06. It gets ignored all winter then used occasionally but mercilessly in the drier months. Had it for years and the only times it stopped on me are when I ran it out of fuel (twice because I'm an idiot) or after months of neglect when it fails to start cause the battery is flat. It's mostly well built, spares are available and any competent spanner monkey can do the routine maintenance. In my experience it's fit for purpose and has proved good value for the 6k it cost me. I also have an 04 300exc dirt bike which has been reliable and is still supported with spares. So far at least I have no cause for complaint.
If I were to buy new I would expect less support from any of the niche bike only companies than I would from the bigger boys, especially those like Honda and BMW who also make cars. I really feel for Jim who is clearly in a desperate position with his claim everything having got completely out of proportion. A long time ago a mate of mine bought one if the last of the original triumph bonivils with money he really didn't have. Needless to say it was a sack if shit and he damn nearly went bust pursuing his claim for a refund. With hindsight he wished he had just sold it on, taken a modest loss and saved all the heartache, time, stress and cost. I wish Jim well but fear the worst.
In the round I think KTM make a good product, I'm happy with the two I bought second hand and would probably buy another if the 1290 ever becomes cheap enough and proves reliable over time.
Worst in my experience is probably BT. Good products but almost impossible to communicate with.
KTM - mine is from 06. It gets ignored all winter then used occasionally but mercilessly in the drier months. Had it for years and the only times it stopped on me are when I ran it out of fuel (twice because I'm an idiot) or after months of neglect when it fails to start cause the battery is flat. It's mostly well built, spares are available and any competent spanner monkey can do the routine maintenance. In my experience it's fit for purpose and has proved good value for the 6k it cost me. I also have an 04 300exc dirt bike which has been reliable and is still supported with spares. So far at least I have no cause for complaint.
If I were to buy new I would expect less support from any of the niche bike only companies than I would from the bigger boys, especially those like Honda and BMW who also make cars. I really feel for Jim who is clearly in a desperate position with his claim everything having got completely out of proportion. A long time ago a mate of mine bought one if the last of the original triumph bonivils with money he really didn't have. Needless to say it was a sack if shit and he damn nearly went bust pursuing his claim for a refund. With hindsight he wished he had just sold it on, taken a modest loss and saved all the heartache, time, stress and cost. I wish Jim well but fear the worst.
In the round I think KTM make a good product, I'm happy with the two I bought second hand and would probably buy another if the 1290 ever becomes cheap enough and proves reliable over time.
bic_bicknell
2014-03-18 21:10:00 UTC
Klink. It did get fixed for free- picking it up tomorrow. More the point it was not Panasonic who got me this service, it took a third party who knew how to wangle their system to get it repaired for no cost to me.
I agree about BT!!! Worst British company to deal with bar non. Totally shite and yet we are forced to deal with them through their monopoly of line rental. I want/need to upgrade my service with them so I can watch Moto GP this year and they can't even answer the phone for over a month with out me cuing for ages which I won't do.
Basically, most companies are far more interested in creating new sales and increasing revenue, not maintaining good relationships with existing customers. That's just the way it is folks.
I agree about BT!!! Worst British company to deal with bar non. Totally shite and yet we are forced to deal with them through their monopoly of line rental. I want/need to upgrade my service with them so I can watch Moto GP this year and they can't even answer the phone for over a month with out me cuing for ages which I won't do.
Basically, most companies are far more interested in creating new sales and increasing revenue, not maintaining good relationships with existing customers. That's just the way it is folks.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-19 01:53:00 UTC
Post missing.
TLS_Russ
2014-03-19 01:57:00 UTC
Unless it's about his beloved TL, in which case he's either got his cock in the exhaust or the exhaust in his arse. Either probably works
Jim H
2014-03-19 04:05:00 UTC
Post missing.
Linga
2014-03-19 06:36:00 UTC
As I had voted I hadn;t gone to that thread. Why is it locked?
There are no defamatory statements there
There are no defamatory statements there
Jim H
2014-03-19 08:26:00 UTC
Post missing.
The Gin Reaper
2014-03-19 08:42:00 UTC
I unlocked it ......
stalker
2014-03-19 09:23:00 UTC
Post missing.
The Gin Reaper
2014-03-19 11:14:00 UTC
Post missing.
stalker
2014-03-19 11:54:00 UTC
which one ?
fair1
fɛː/
adjective
adjective: fair; comparative adjective: fairer; superlative adjective: fairest
1.
treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination.
"the group has achieved fair and equal representation for all its members"
synonyms: just, equitable, fair-minded, open-minded, honest, upright, honourable, trustworthy; More
impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, non-partisan, non-discriminatory, objective, neutral, even-handed, dispassionate, disinterested, detached;
above board, lawful, legal, legitimate, proper, good;
informallegit, kosher, pukka, on the level, square;
informalon the up and up
"the courts were generally regarded as fair"
antonyms: unfair
just or appropriate in the circumstances.
"to be fair, this subject poses special problems"
archaic
(of a means or procedure) not violent.
"try first by fair means"
2.
(of hair or complexion) light; blonde.
"a pretty girl with long fair hair"
synonyms: blond(e), yellow, yellowish, golden, flaxen, light, light brown, light-coloured, strawberry blonde, tow-coloured, platinum, ash blonde, bleached, bleached-blonde, sun-bleached, peroxide, bottle-blonde; More
fair1
fɛː/
adjective
adjective: fair; comparative adjective: fairer; superlative adjective: fairest
1.
treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination.
"the group has achieved fair and equal representation for all its members"
synonyms: just, equitable, fair-minded, open-minded, honest, upright, honourable, trustworthy; More
impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, non-partisan, non-discriminatory, objective, neutral, even-handed, dispassionate, disinterested, detached;
above board, lawful, legal, legitimate, proper, good;
informallegit, kosher, pukka, on the level, square;
informalon the up and up
"the courts were generally regarded as fair"
antonyms: unfair
just or appropriate in the circumstances.
"to be fair, this subject poses special problems"
archaic
(of a means or procedure) not violent.
"try first by fair means"
2.
(of hair or complexion) light; blonde.
"a pretty girl with long fair hair"
synonyms: blond(e), yellow, yellowish, golden, flaxen, light, light brown, light-coloured, strawberry blonde, tow-coloured, platinum, ash blonde, bleached, bleached-blonde, sun-bleached, peroxide, bottle-blonde; More
The Gin Reaper
2014-03-19 19:07:00 UTC
Post missing.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-19 19:25:00 UTC
Post missing.
Jim H
2014-03-19 23:44:00 UTC
My tank is swollen, when I have to lift or remove it I end up using nearly all the swear words I know and a couple pry bars to get the bolts back in.
When I put my tank bag on, the seat fits so tight against it that another battle ensues to get the seat back into place.
So, I fit my tank bag in the spring and leave it. And hope I don't need to remove the seat to get to my tools.
I know that in the nearly 4 years I've owned the bike the tank fit has gotten worse.
I also know that I have had less issues with my 01 LC4 that I bought new than I have had with the SD, and the LC4 has been ridden much harder.
When I put my tank bag on, the seat fits so tight against it that another battle ensues to get the seat back into place.
So, I fit my tank bag in the spring and leave it. And hope I don't need to remove the seat to get to my tools.
I know that in the nearly 4 years I've owned the bike the tank fit has gotten worse.
I also know that I have had less issues with my 01 LC4 that I bought new than I have had with the SD, and the LC4 has been ridden much harder.
blb
2014-03-20 09:56:00 UTC
Post missing.
bic_bicknell
2014-03-20 10:42:00 UTC
Jim I just wanted to say that this happened on my RC8 too, started to bubble around one of the creases and near the fuel flap. It was also a complete pain in the ass to get back on especially when full with fuel, should have been easier with its 4 fixings too. I was lucky in that it happened during the warranty period so KTM paid for it.
Also as I had a good relationship with the dealer they let me keep the old one, I got this one painted (proving it is possible to repair these if you can get the paint code) Put the painted one back on the bike and flogged the new one to pay for crashfest!! Love the fact I got one over KTM with that!
On the other hand as a few of you know my RC8 blew its guts out at 5200 miles. KTM would only cover half the cost of the parts as it was out of warranty. The repair would have still cost in the region of £2000 so I gave up the fight, the bike was a fooking peace of shit so was glad to see the back of it in the end.
Jim I really feel for you and all the money and time you may lose in the fight against them, I wish you the best of luck with the fight. I just hope you know if and when you're beaten. KTM and Black Horse (essentially Lloyds bank) are massive, this is a real David and Goliath fight. I applaud you for trying to get your point across to KTM for the good of all the members on here.
As a sometime Mod on here, we are here to Moderate. The clue is in the title, we feel your pain but we have to look after the best interests of the forum. All the other guys have already said this but I just wanted to get my point of view across. There are plenty of other forums that would lock and delete a lot more threads than we do. I no longer own a KTM and never will again after my experiences with the RC8 but I still have a lot of passion for this forum and most of its inhabitants.
All the best with your fight mate.
Also as I had a good relationship with the dealer they let me keep the old one, I got this one painted (proving it is possible to repair these if you can get the paint code) Put the painted one back on the bike and flogged the new one to pay for crashfest!! Love the fact I got one over KTM with that!
On the other hand as a few of you know my RC8 blew its guts out at 5200 miles. KTM would only cover half the cost of the parts as it was out of warranty. The repair would have still cost in the region of £2000 so I gave up the fight, the bike was a fooking peace of shit so was glad to see the back of it in the end.
Jim I really feel for you and all the money and time you may lose in the fight against them, I wish you the best of luck with the fight. I just hope you know if and when you're beaten. KTM and Black Horse (essentially Lloyds bank) are massive, this is a real David and Goliath fight. I applaud you for trying to get your point across to KTM for the good of all the members on here.
As a sometime Mod on here, we are here to Moderate. The clue is in the title, we feel your pain but we have to look after the best interests of the forum. All the other guys have already said this but I just wanted to get my point of view across. There are plenty of other forums that would lock and delete a lot more threads than we do. I no longer own a KTM and never will again after my experiences with the RC8 but I still have a lot of passion for this forum and most of its inhabitants.
All the best with your fight mate.
shadowman
2014-03-20 10:50:00 UTC
I love to ride my SD, it is the best handling bike I've ever ridden.
The engine is fantastic, and the bike looks like nothing else.
But now I'm thinking maybe a Tenere is in order. Not as fast, or as stunning.
Certainly more boring. But oh so reliable.
I've also thought about a Ural. They break, but can be fixed much easier.
The engine is fantastic, and the bike looks like nothing else.
But now I'm thinking maybe a Tenere is in order. Not as fast, or as stunning.
Certainly more boring. But oh so reliable.
I've also thought about a Ural. They break, but can be fixed much easier.
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-22 16:18:00 UTC
Well really? Well yes actually, I was told to "bugger off" from P&H Motorcycles in Crawley today, all be it was maybe in a bit of jest but even so. Went in knowing they have no 1290s but asked if they were getting a demo model so I could have a ride before I considered buying and their basic response was, " No, won't be getting any, we can sell all we want without one".
"But what about people like me", I ask. " I've been waiting for nearly two years for this bike. A loyal KTM customer and Superduke fan. I have my £12k and maybe would like one. But I want a ride first. Isn't this a bit lame on KTMs part?"
"No mate, it's smart marketing. They've sold everything they can make. We're not bothered about keeping people waiting, we can sell all we can get."
"Yes but they could have sold more couldn't they? I know for a fact that there are a lot of current 990 owners who can't even get a ride and they are starting to consider other bikes like the BMW and Aprilia offerings, whichever are cheaper and arguably better specced for the money."
There's nothing wrong with the price, we can sell everything. And anyway all those 990 owners on forums are just people who sit about on the internet and don't actually ride."
"Oh really, people like me you mean? Well I can imagine that in a year you will be discounting the 1290 just like you did with the RC8 and a lot of potential customers will own BMWs and Aprilias and not return to KTM as customers. That doesn't seem so smart to me. And what can you tell me about the problems with oil leaks that are occurring globally with the new bikes? And why is the fromt fork non adjustable for preload? And what about the incapacity to store settings for the electronics? They will have to address this on the next model. Surely that is a bike built down to a price, not a bike commanding the highest price in the category."
"Look mate, KTM have got it right, if you want one put a deposit down like everyone else."
"I don't think I will thanks. Maybe I will just wait until next year and pick up a used one once all the problems are sorted".
"Yeah, well bring you're wallet next year then". (They actually said this, word for word)
"Hmmm, well then I'd be buying privately wouldn't I, not through a dealer".
"Well bugger off then".
OK, I will KTM. Thanks for nothing and, by the way, your ill informed ,ignorant, rude franchised dealers like P&H suck.
"But what about people like me", I ask. " I've been waiting for nearly two years for this bike. A loyal KTM customer and Superduke fan. I have my £12k and maybe would like one. But I want a ride first. Isn't this a bit lame on KTMs part?"
"No mate, it's smart marketing. They've sold everything they can make. We're not bothered about keeping people waiting, we can sell all we can get."
"Yes but they could have sold more couldn't they? I know for a fact that there are a lot of current 990 owners who can't even get a ride and they are starting to consider other bikes like the BMW and Aprilia offerings, whichever are cheaper and arguably better specced for the money."
There's nothing wrong with the price, we can sell everything. And anyway all those 990 owners on forums are just people who sit about on the internet and don't actually ride."
"Oh really, people like me you mean? Well I can imagine that in a year you will be discounting the 1290 just like you did with the RC8 and a lot of potential customers will own BMWs and Aprilias and not return to KTM as customers. That doesn't seem so smart to me. And what can you tell me about the problems with oil leaks that are occurring globally with the new bikes? And why is the fromt fork non adjustable for preload? And what about the incapacity to store settings for the electronics? They will have to address this on the next model. Surely that is a bike built down to a price, not a bike commanding the highest price in the category."
"Look mate, KTM have got it right, if you want one put a deposit down like everyone else."
"I don't think I will thanks. Maybe I will just wait until next year and pick up a used one once all the problems are sorted".
"Yeah, well bring you're wallet next year then". (They actually said this, word for word)
"Hmmm, well then I'd be buying privately wouldn't I, not through a dealer".
"Well bugger off then".
OK, I will KTM. Thanks for nothing and, by the way, your ill informed ,ignorant, rude franchised dealers like P&H suck.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-22 17:03:00 UTC
Interesting concept. Take cashed up customer and see who can puss him off fastest. I'm guessing they are paid at least in part on commission so this seems strange, almost moronic behaviour. Hard to understand this unless Bic was dressed as a tramp or the guy had resigned and was just amusing himself at your expense.
Perhaps he is just a moron. He got one thing right though, mine hasn't come out if the garage this year, perhaps he had me in mind!!
Perhaps he is just a moron. He got one thing right though, mine hasn't come out if the garage this year, perhaps he had me in mind!!
bic_bicknell
2014-03-22 17:55:00 UTC
You're judging KTM on a shit dealer though Bic. If they are too tight to buy a demo what can you do? There are demos available as KTM Centre were on about getting a 2nd one in. Be interesting to see how many 1290s are shifted in the uk this year. I think this is going to be the most popular bike KTM have ever made and satisfying world demand is probably taking some doing.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-22 21:02:00 UTC
I've been lucky. The dealer I use started as KTM in 05, so just as the superduke came out.
I'd known the owner for years due to his association with another dealer I used.
The owner is a former racer, and he was decent - National class, had a entry to euro 600s I think.
They are really happy to see a bike used on track and have always been very helpful.
I'd known the owner for years due to his association with another dealer I used.
The owner is a former racer, and he was decent - National class, had a entry to euro 600s I think.
They are really happy to see a bike used on track and have always been very helpful.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-22 21:53:00 UTC
What dealer?
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-22 21:54:00 UTC
Hyside Motorcycles.
They are in Collier Row but will be moving into Romford proper soon.
Also a Ducati dealer.
They are in Collier Row but will be moving into Romford proper soon.
Also a Ducati dealer.
Ducati Pete
2014-03-22 21:57:00 UTC
I thought they dropped KTM and went just Ducati Pete.. lol did you see what I did there??
Ducati Pete
2014-03-22 22:01:00 UTC
Yes, they dropped KTM.
Then they once again embraced the orange!
Then they once again embraced the orange!
bic_bicknell
2014-03-22 22:06:00 UTC
and yes, what you did there, I see it!
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-22 22:21:00 UTC
I'm going to ring Hemmel tomorrow and see what the deal is to get on to a 1290. Klinky, did you say some time ago that they have a demo with the Akro kit fitted now?
How does it work anyway, this demo ride bollox? Never done it before.
Do you get a specified time slot or can you just turn up on spec? How long do you get? Do you have to sign something to say you'll pay for damage if you crash it!
How does it work anyway, this demo ride bollox? Never done it before.
Do you get a specified time slot or can you just turn up on spec? How long do you get? Do you have to sign something to say you'll pay for damage if you crash it!
Colonel_Klinck
2014-03-22 22:29:00 UTC
Post missing.
shadowman
2014-03-23 12:33:00 UTC
sweet, Romford is near me.
Jim H
2014-03-24 19:55:00 UTC
i was at Snetterton today and was chatting to 2 of the other instructors. They are both riding 2012 bikes that are only used for trackdays but no racing. One is an RSV4 and with less than 3.5k miles on it it is on its 3rd gearbox
Sarasota_Steve
2016-10-18 20:44:00 UTC
SUPERDUKEINOZ
2016-10-18 20:52:00 UTC
Cheap!
bic_bicknell
2016-10-19 06:50:00 UTC
Sarasota_Steve
2016-10-19 09:34:00 UTC
Who wants to buy this for $800?
Aphex
2016-10-20 18:38:00 UTC
Post missing.