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Dyno-Tuner in Aylesbury / SDR with TuneBoy

TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-22 19:41:00 UTC

Right, I don't really know where to start as I feel I've got so much to tell you.

I recently got my Motobox, and my plan has always been to take the bike to a dyno to get it set up after the strict standard box has been ripped off the bike. I wanted to use TuneBoy, that I purchased last year, instead of the traditional PowerCommander III (PCIII) because I think the TuneBoy is the right way to do it (into the ECU) and a piggy-back-box is a bit of a cludge.
My problem has been to find a real tuner, one that's not afraid of doing the job right, and looking into the problems that the SuperDuke, and especially the SuperDuke R has got. All tuners know how to remap an R1 or a GSX-R, but the SD/SDR is, as always, special. Then add to the problem that I didn't want to use a PCIII. I felt this was never going to happen.

Imagine my surprise when I found what I can only describe as a total gold mine of knowledge and enthusiasm; in Aylesbury. Not only does Dave's shop have a dyno (and it's not a Dynojet one either!), but he's a racer too. And for us, my bretheren, he's also KTM Superduke Battle racer (both years), and he won the cup in 2008. Yes, that's one way of saying that he knows the KTM SuperDuke, inside and out. Last year he did the RC8 cup too (and this year he's going to try to get a Harley to go around the track - good luck!). On top of this he's a real genuine top class nice guy. No, really. He is. So's everybody else in shop too. Nice bunch. Oh, and you kind of get a warm fuzzy feeling when you realise that the shop has got a mililng machine, lathe, TIG welder and other machining tools too.

So I found someone who a) knows SuperDukes, b) has got a Dyno, c) is willing to try to use the TuneBoy/TuneEdit, d) cares about the bike and the tune, e) is a nice guy. I couldn't believe my luck!

Dave spent a helluva long time on the dyno with my bike, and he's really transformed it. I cacluated that he's used about 2/3 of a full tank of fuel to do the dyno runs! I had the privilege to be present when he started off, and keep in mind he's never used the TuneEdit software before. He ran the bike at different throttle positions, sometimes applying load to the bike, then adjusting, and then repeat the whole procedure. Increasing throttle opening till the front cylinder was done... then repeat with the rear cylinder.
Here's a pic of the man himself;
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And a few pics of the dyno. I really like it because it is... surprises surprise, built to have bikes on it!

Exhaust suckers:
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Air outlet in front of the rear wheel:
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And the main air ducts to keep the bike cool:
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Anyway, my bike (2008 SDR) was dyno'd at, gone 4,500 miles, with a service just done. Rear tyre was at the end of its life. The bike has got Akra Evolution Titanium full exhaust with baffles in, Motohooligan Motobox airbox (with "gills" in the shrouds), my home made O2 sensor eliminator plugs, no SAS stuff. And probably something that I've forgotten.

My brief to Dave was, in order; 1) Match the hardware to the fuelling - i.e make sure it doesn't detonate from lean fuelling or run too rich. 2) Focus on getting the fuelling smooth, and that lethal jerk that you get when you go from off-throttle under engine braking to slowly on-throttle. 3) Any power found gratefully accepted.

The end result is this:
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In my eyes that's a very straight and nice power curve and the torque curve is very flat from 4,000 rpms onwards.
The power figure is 126.5bhp at the rear wheel and the torque is 107Nm. Crank figures are 138bhp and 117Nm. Dave reckons that the baffles are stealing 2-3bhp, and that one could liberate 3-5bhp by using a different valve clearance. I would have wanted him to do it, but I just couldn't justify the additional £150-£200 it would have cost me to adjust valve clearances.

On the road the bike is much improved. I can do 30mph (50km/h), at 3,000rpms in 3rd gear with one hand. This was pretty much impossible without fearing for my life before. I've only done some 150 miles so far, so I'm not 100% used to the "new bike", but I've noticed that I can carry much better speed and above all have better control in long corners where precise throttle is required. Powerwise I don't know if there's much more power than before the Dyno, but I don't really care, it's the way it takes me there; it's totally undramatic. It just surges. The running of the engine, even at low rpms feel much "softer". In the past the engine kind of felt aggressive, in a bad way. Unsettled. Now it's much more controllable. Even when pulling away.

About the TuneBoy/TuneEdit and other ECU boxes.
This was Dave's first encounter with the TuneBoy and the "horrible" TuneEdit software. He spent a long time getting a computer to work with it... It didn't like Windows 7, and he got it to run on Windows Vista (*puke*). Sadly TuneBoy didn't offer any rapid support for it so he wasted even more time, when all that was needed was to tick a tick-box that's kind of specific to KTM's Keihin ECUs (has to do with timing). The second observation from Dave was that sometimes the TuneEdit software wouldn't upload (which they call download) to the ECU "This would annoy me no end", I think his words were. In the end he thought it does the job, but it's slower than his favourite Rapid Bike boxes...
He absolutely loves the Rapid Bike boxes. He really does. And he doesn't like PowerCommanders at all. He doesn't think they work very well (he's had issues where they've done nothing). He still does a lot of PowerCommander tuning though as a lot of customers ask for it.
One reason why the TuneBoy is slower is that it doesn't allow you to simply push new maps into the ECU without turning the ignition on and off. Also, he's got the kit set up for the others so with the TuneBoy he had to get on and off the bike all the time.

I asked him if he'll do more TuneBoy stuff, and he said yes, cost is about £300, and that's borrowing my cable plus the cost for the ECU key (AUD199). A Rapid Bike kit, depending on 1, 2 or 3 is £235, £270 or £400 respectively, dyno time for these is cheaper at about £150. These numbers should be accurate, but as always it's Dave's call, so speak to him.
Either way, he can sort your SuperDuke out, using PCIII, Rapid Bike or even TuneBoy. He's also ace with suspension, and I believe that's what I'm going to have to bug him with next..

And for the record, I get no money or discounts or kickbacks, I'm merely a fooking satisfied customer.

I've probably forgotten something, but either way, just ask if you've got any questions.

Oh, and hear the bike sing here, make sure you've got nice speakers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=tD7V66vYNpo

Superdan

Superdan

2010-03-22 19:52:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-22 20:08:00 UTC

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Superdan

Superdan

2010-03-22 21:08:00 UTC

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the-bunker

the-bunker

2010-03-22 22:28:00 UTC

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Twisted Jester

Twisted Jester

2010-03-22 23:42:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-23 08:56:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-23 09:00:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-23 15:45:00 UTC

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bic_bicknell

bic_bicknell

2010-03-23 16:08:00 UTC

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jmann

jmann

2010-03-23 21:50:00 UTC

Great write up Joker!

I've just had a similar experience at HMRacing today, (my post is in the Hooligan section). Totally transformed the bike, I thought it was good before but now, like you experienced, it's a very smooth power delivery in every gear. They advised me to map with baffles out - as I usually ride like this - putting them back in for some tracks will just make it a bit rich but mapping with and then taking them out would risk too lean a mixture.

Like you I have to be modest about the power gains over a standard '07 SD. I think that the honest truth is that 109BHP is what they put out as standard and with all the mods, (like you Motobox, Akras, SAS junked, O2 elliminaters, PC111), I get a 12HP gain overall. I am happy with that. But like you, I care about how it's delivers - I am really happy with the A/F graph for each gear and how flat the curves are. I will scan in and post all my charts tomorrow.

In defense of the Dynojet PC hardware and software, the guys at HM said that they knew it got slagged off sometimes and that there were more sophisticated systems on the market but for the price - and simplicity - of the system it was really good. What seemed evident to me way that it will always come down to the ability of your dyno technician as to how they interpret the readings and dial in any changes. It's not an automatic process and there is a lot of skill involved really. Wait to see my charts - they are really smooth and impressive and took several hours to achieve.

Hope the weather gets better. We both need to be out enjoying the transformation of our projects!

They shagged my back tyre too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was worth it though.

TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 00:54:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 04:23:00 UTC

Love the dyno setup, that has to be the best dyno arrangement I have seen. The air vent for the tyre is a must and most dyno shops don't have this.

On the TuneEdit side, we have been doing lots of work to make it easier for dyno tuners.
The new version of TuneEdit will read two wide band O2 sensors (Front and rear cylinders) and record the average A/F value as you run through the revs.
This means the dyno operator just needs to set the dyno to hold, turn the throttle until is lines up with a throttle point then let the dyno run up through the revs. He just needs to hold the throttle steady while it does the run and the TuneEdit program will keep track of all the values for front and rear cylinders.
Repeat this for each throttle position or every second position.
All of this is done without turning the bike off as it is just collecting the info.
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This next one is the second cylinder
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The A/F values are coloured based on how close they are to the targets you have set. If they are within 0.2 of the target the colour is green, if it is outside this on the rich side it will be blue. On the lean side it will be red.
Darker red or blue indicates the value is a long way from the target.
Once you have collected the data you just go to the tools menu in TuneEdit and select "Correct fuel map", this will look at the measured A/F values and calculate the required adjustment for each point that has recorded A/F values. The target A/F value it uses is defined in the A/F target table, you can set a different target for each point in the map.
The example given here has the target set to 13/1
Once you correct the map you can use the 3D graph to blend the changes in with the surrounding area, see the next screen shot.
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The green dots show the points in the map that the software has adjusted.
As you can see from the A/F tables I only ran the bike up to 20% throttle for the first set of data, this allows some correction to the higher throttle values before you run at these points, this makes sure you don't load the bike up with a lean mixture.
This next screen shot shows the graph after I have blended out from the auto tune points.
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The next two screen shots show the A/F values at higher throttle points after one pass to correct the values.
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At this point I do the "Correct fuel map" again and download this into the ECU on the bike.
This process only needed the bike to be turned off for a download three times, this takes away the problem dyno operators have with the software because you have to stop the bike to do a download.
The next screen shot is the dyno graph printout at one of the lower throttle positions. You can see that the A/F trace is very flat.
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As for the TuneBoy software not working on Windows 7 this is not true.
What is true is that you must install the drivers for the TuneBoy cable if you want it to work.
The problem with Windows 7 is that it will not popup the Windows hardware wizard when you connect a new device. You need to go into control panel and check in device manager to make sure the drivers are installed.
I think a good bit of advice is to install the TuneBoy software yourself and do a few downloads to the bike before you take it to a dyno operator, that way you will know what needs to be done to get the software working.

I hope this info is helpful, I hope I have not said anything that offends as this is not my intention.

TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 06:38:00 UTC

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Twisted Jester

Twisted Jester

2010-03-24 11:06:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 11:10:00 UTC

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Twisted Jester

Twisted Jester

2010-03-24 11:23:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 11:50:00 UTC

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Twisted Jester

Twisted Jester

2010-03-24 12:45:00 UTC

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Plipton

Plipton

2010-03-24 12:56:00 UTC

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TheJoker

TheJoker

2010-03-24 13:32:00 UTC

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Plipton

Plipton

2010-03-24 13:50:00 UTC

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