This post is about how to create O2 Sensor Eliminator Plugs. It is a "tidied up" version of this long thread over here: http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7311 started by Sam.

Thanks to these guys - in no particular order.
Sam - You sparked it all. Thanks! (No thanks for forgetting the K after 1000 ohm )
cat - You've been a huge source of information and support. And found the plugs at Eastern Beaver.
Plipton - For letting me know that the PCIII map in his bike doesn't actually change the fuelling that much.
vertigo66 - For information and testing the PCIII plugs without the PCIII
bigash - Also for information on the PCIII plugs without the PCIII
pulcinella - THANKS for confirming that the resistor is 1M Ohm and not 1K Ohm! This was the clincher!
jehadjoe - For being who he is.

Why should you do this?
To cut a long story short. The LC8 engine is designed to conform to EU (and other countries) exhaust regulations. Therefore somewhere around the 4,000 rpm the engine tries really hard to please the politicians and the tree-huggers. The O2 Sensors are there to allow the engine to work in, what's called, Closed Loop. This means that the ECU reads the input from the O2 sensors and then adjusts the fuelling to be as hippy-friendly as possible. Sadly this doesn't seem to work well. It results in the bike being jerky and quite unpleasant to ride. Try riding at 30mph (50km/h) in 2nd gear. Should be around 3,000 rpms at a steady throttle and you'll see that it can be quite a daunting task.
There's an upside to this. The bike can only go into Closed Loop when a certain factors are all present. If it can't go into Closed Loop mode, it'll use the fixed fuel maps created by KTM. These maps don't change on a whim (or based on a low cost second rate component such as the narrow band O2 sensors). The bike runs really well on the fixed fuel map. Therefore the trick is to prevent the ECU going into the Closed Loop mode. The O2 plugs are the answer to this.
But... won't this pollute the world..?! Not really. The bike runs the predefined fuel maps above about 4,000 rpms, and below when the engine isn't warm (and that's when it's spitting out the msot emissions anyway). Therefore you'll lose a bit of green-kudos, below about 4,000 rpms when the engine is hot. Otherwise the emissions are the same.

Alternatives
You can buy the PowerCommander III and use the plugs from that package. Or you can get just the plugs. They're USD15 in USA, and GBP37 (+ P&P). To me, this was an unacceptable price.

The Plugs.
There's four wires on the O2 Sensor. Two white, and a grey and a black one. The white ones are for the O2 Sensor Heater. These two wires should be replaced with the 330 Ohm resistor. The grey and black ones are for the O2 Sensor's output - i.e they tell the ECU what's going on. These two wires needs to be replaced with the 1M Ohm resistor.

The Material.
The most essential stuff is the four resistors. You'll need two of 1W 1M Ohm resistors and then two of 3W 330 Ohm resistors. There's a large chance that you can use lesser wattage resistors too, but I've not tried them. The 1M Ohm resistor could possibly go down to 0.25W, and I'm fairly sure it can be 0.5W. I've tried 0.25W for the 330 Ohm, and they got very hot, but didn't fry. 0.25W might work, 0.5W should be better, 1W probably even better, and the 3W I'm using is getting warm, but not too hot. Let me know what you try and how it works! I got my resistors from CPC http://cpc.farnell.com/fixed-resistors and Farnells http://uk.farnell.com/browse-for-products in UK. They're the same company, but Farnell has got a minimum order of £30, whilst CPC butt-rams you with a handling fee of £6 or something.
Then you might want some plugs. I got mine from Eastern Beaver. Order two of "4P090WP-MT Connector" from here: http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Pro ... sm-mt.html If you feel clumsy, get an additional set of "Connector and Pin Set", number "FM090WP Kit". Whilst you're at it, get some of that amazing heat shrink tube that's got glue on the inside of it. It'll make nice waterproof connectors everywhere.
To make mine (well Mk II) pretty, I used some (non-glue) heat shrink tube.

How to assemble it.
If you want to go the cheap and perhaps unreliable way, just get the resistors and stick them into the connector at the bike. Something like this:

Then tape it up, and "Done!"
If you want to be cheap, but a bit more reliable, and you don't care about the original wiring loom on the bike, cut the freakin' cables and solder the resistors on.
If you want it all to look a bit "factory" then you'll get the plugs too, some heat shrink, and you assemble them something like this:

At the bottom is Mk I, which I will probably redo so it looks like Mk II. The parts at the top are. The plug, with pins and seals. Then there's the 3W 330 Ohm resistor with some heat shrink on it. Then there's the 1W 1M (that's 1000K) Ohm resistor and some heat shrink to go over it.

Heat shrink it all on, and then stick the seals on. Should look like this.
Solder on the connectors, and it should look something like this:

NOTE: if you have a real crimper too, or just some luck, you might be able to simply crimp the resistors on. I soldered them for reliability and I have the soldering iron readily available.

Then you need to stick the connector pins into the plug.

And...

The pictures aren't really good as they don't show things "all the way round". However, we'll call the side with the locking pin "the top", and the bottom one, erhm, "the bottom".
The 330 Ohm resistor goes into "the top" (where the white-white cables used to be), and the 1M Ohm resistor goes into "the bottom" (where the black-grey cables used to go).

Mounting on the bike.
You'll locate the front cylinder's connector behind the coolant expansion tank. To do that (on my 2008 SDR) you'll need access. Remove the tank shrouds, both of them. Take the seat off, and the seat-holder that's near the back of the tank. Then undo the tank-holding bolt and lift up the tank and prop the tank up a bit (30cm should do it). Make sure you don't have too much fuel in the tank as it'll start dripping out. Then you can see the expansion tank, undo the two holding bolts and unclip the hose behind the tank. Lower the tank out of the way. It should be safe to just leave it dangling there for a few minutes. Locate the connector that's hiding somewhere between the air box and the frame. Get your girlfriend or an infant to release the connector. Once you've got connectors apart, simply put your new and shiny home made connector on. I taped up the O2 Sensor part, but in hindsight I could have used the male-connector with some blanking plugs (you can get those from Eastern Beaver too). Then I zip tied the O2 cable up like this:

And the new O2 Sensor Plug like this:

The rear cylinder is a bit easier, but you'll have to bend down if you don't have a table. Take the battery cover - the front cowl behind the front wheel - off. On the SDR that's fastened with a bolt on each side, and then the two screws with 6mm head underneath. Slide it down/forward. On the battery side you need to locate the four pin connector that's got white-white-grey-black wires going towards the rear of the bike. Undo the connector and slide on your new O2 Sensor Eliminator Plug. Again, in the pics I taped up the O2 Sensor Cable, but I should have used the male connector with blanking seals. I'll do that at some point.


Testing
Stick the expansion hose back on the tank, screw the tank into position and start the engine, as normal. You should not get an FI light when you start the bike. The important part is to run the bike till it gets warm, because the ECU will heat up the O2 Sensors and before they're warm, it won't know if they're working or not. Keep an eye on the bike. Give it some throttle once in a while so make sure it gets proper oil pressure and builds some heat.
If your bike is warm enough to start the cooling fan, and you haven't had an FI light blinking, then things are tickety-boo!
The error codes are one long, seven short blinks for the rear cylinder, and one long and eight short blinks for the front cylinder. If you get any or both of these, things didn't work out.

Now all you need to do is to put the tank down, panels on, seat (and holder) on, front cowl on and you're ready to rock.

The Result
What can you expect from this? Well, the engine will be much smoother, much smoother. In fact, this is probably the modification that makes the biggest difference to the running of the engine.

Other modifications you should do.
Balance the throttle bodies. This helped my bike a lot! http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5347
Remove the SAS functionality. This helped quite a bit on my bike. http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7272

And my next thing is to take the TuneBoy kit (http://www.tuneboy.com.au/ http://www.tuneboy.co.uk/) to a Dyno and get the fuelling spot on.

Again, biiig thanks to everybody involved!!

GOOD!!!

Wow, What an author you are, I hope to reach these lofty heights someday, thanks for the lesson in suggestion.

Joker, if the results are as good as you say, this may very well be THE post for all SD and SDR owners. Well done!

Can anyone confirm Joker's findings in terms of rideability? I see a trip to my local Power Commander supplier in my future.

Yes, I agree with that, and the excuses that bikes are somehow different to cars in this is mostly bullshiit. (They're more affected by quick throttle response factors in this but that's about all, afaik.)

BMW should get it right, thev're got leading car engine tech design. (Then again, we can't expect so much corporate organisation to have the car and bike divisions to cooperate etc.)

Anyway, all the others, it applies to them all. The technology is not that new, it's been developed in the car industry for quite a while. It's not secret, all the bike manufacturers and the ECU designers can get the information they need.

In the case of KTM SD, the ECU program is obviously not very good. Way more complex stuff is being done in industrial automation and other fields.

wrt to altitude, that is one of the benefits of EFI, and afaik it works, generally better than carbs.

Anyway, same old story, it needs to be repeated all the time: the problem here is not EFI fueling, the problem is the uneven throttle response caused by ECU rapidly alternating between closed and open loop logic, based on input from O2 sensor. And I think it's obvious, when you read about the differences between narrowband and wideband O2 sensors that everything must eventually go to using wideband sensors.

It would be interesting to know which cars (BMW, Mercedes,...?) use wideband sensors, as standard.

Hi Mister Toad, I may should have worded that differently ... ' in the near term foreseeable future'.. sorry bout that sir.

had a bmw r-1100s and wow what a turd on fueling... dealer had no idea how to fix it... lost confidence and had a very hard time getting rid if the bike..

have to say in 40+ years of biking that was a low point... at least in my life a low point...

I guess conjecture and lack of longevity should be equated inside each paragraph like a disclaimer...

I just say I am sorry and hope some folks can let by-gone be by-gone....

not sure how the lawyers would weather though? had heard of a study that people say "im sorry too much...

also they say that poetry binds our souls together.... I am not feeling it today..

Joker - are you fairly sure that the O2 sensors are there to make the emissions regulators happy/work well with the cats, and not to vary fueling for better running in response to changes in altitude/temperature/humidity that affect oxygen content?

My elevation can vary several thousand feet when I take a trip, and humidity here varies greatly by season. I just got my eliminators. I guess I just need to try them as it's easy enough to take them off and reconnect the O2 sensors?

If there's any SuperDuke owners near the North Oxfordshire area in UK who's interested in this, let me know as I still have some parts to make a set of plugs (I need to check exactly how much material I have).

I am still waiting for my connectors to arrive. Shipped on the 5th April. I hope it's because of all the public holidays. Maybe it'll arrive tomorrow.

So meanwhile I took off the O2 sensors and put the plugs in. I thought it would take 10-15 minutes, but no. They neatly ran the rear sensor cable through a little space between the sidestand mount and the engine - to small to get the connector or the sensor through. ...which took some doing, because they're glued in, with some kind of sticky putty stuff, and loosen the nut on the engine mounting bolt so the stand bracket can pivot out of the way. And then put the frikking engine cowl thing back.
Oh and meanwhile, the plugs are a few mm longer than the threaded part of the sensors, they really need copper washers....and although I have a bunch of copper washers,..none fitted.

Am interested in this thread - can anyone tell me what the effect of A/F ratio is after this mod, has anyone measured assuming a PCIII is not being used. My fueling is bearable and certainly alot better than when new and have no mods except 2nd / 3rd gear de-limiter, tried a few things on here and just did not feel right to me but the thought of 20mph in 5th gear - no way my bike could do that the way it is right now but i would like it to!

Thanks

cal

Oops missed this post and my error on the resistance

I see on the MarkII/III you used smaller resisters, this is a pic of the Genuine Dynojet plugs and they use the smaller ones so shouldn't be a problem and much neater.

Anyone installed these?
I strongly doubt my own skills in making the plugs myself, so this
is what I was thinking about...

http://www.dzt-power.com/shop/Bike-Parts/O²-EliminatorenController/KTM/KTM-Superduke-06-08-O2-Eliminator::890.html

Guys very interesting - I have the same problem and thoughts about how to begin fixing the snatch. Can anyone verify the correct part # from Dynojet for the eliminators - I think it is SKU: 76423016 $30.00 / pr in the US ????

Sorry for the stupid question - I finally found that Joker had posted that part # in the other older thread - it is the correct part #

I've just made a set of O2 eliminators for my (akra fitted) SD. My mate is after some now too. He's got standard cans fitted, so is there any problem fitting these even when the exhaust system still has the catalyst fitted??
Just wanted to check before ordering more connectors up.

If anyone wants them, I now have a spare pair of genuine DynoJet O2 Eliminators for sale.

Brand new and unused - I was going to buy another SD and thought I'd be clever, purchasing 4 in one go!!

They cost me £17.96 each, plus postage. I will sell them to a superduke.net forum member for the princley sum of £30 inc. P&P... flippin' bargain, if you ask me.

Let me know... Jase x

Recently removed SAS pipes and replaced with block-off plates, fitted Motobox and PC111 along with the 02 eliminator plugs. Been reading all the threads about this and have a couple of questions. Is everyone removing all the O2 wiring front and rear? Or just taping up the exposed plug? Front wiring is easy to remove but rear is really embedded in the loom running down past the side stand. Is it worth doing? The other question is if they are removed then what do I plug the resulting hole in the exhaust where the sensors come out? Is there an available part for this? I read somewhere that someone had got some sort of plug. I guess there is no harm in leaving the O2 wiring and sensors in but it seems sort of untidy and presumably there is a big sensor hanging out in the exhaust flow which doesn't need to be there.

Hi Bic, I took them out as I run a wideband commander and that runs of a different o2 sensor. I use the same holes for this and one is plugged of. I alternate between the 2 cylinders to check each of them. The rear wiring one is not that hard to undo as the protective sleeve round the loom just unwinds and twists back on. The problem is finding the block off plugs, most car exhaust places have plugs but they are too long unless you open the hole a bit behind the tread. I did this using a holesaw with a spanner on it, fiddly job....
Let me know if you want pictures how to do this, but explicits don't picture...

If I use the 02 eliminators from Dynojet (cos I am a total toss at soldering) it says in the Power Commander instructions that the F1 lights will trip??

Anyone used these..........and I don't plan to use a PCIII just yet.

I know, I was just reminding, for those who come in at the end and don't see where the thread began. Your information useful, I could've used that a while ago. I spent ages trying to find a supplier, that would ship international as well.

Excellent instructions, The Joker! Thanks!

Any update on this? What's the smallest resistors that have been used successfully?
I'm about to try this mod myself, and I need to order the resistors.

Just received my order from Eastern Beaver today, one week after ordering - great service - still waiting for the eliminators from KTM Twins ordered two weeks ago though........................

Look at the bottom of the Tools menu in TuneEdit. You'll find the command "Reset Adaptive settings".

Here's an email I got from Wayne at Tuneboy. For those who don't know Wayne, he IS Tuneboy. He has a very good knowledge and understanding of the Keihin ECU's.


=============================================

Hi

I have made some changes to the TuneBoy program to fix some of the issues for KTM owners.
Download and run http://www.tuneboy.com.au/Support/KTM/TuneBoyUpdate.exe
This will replace the TuneBoy.exe, then TuneBoyControl.dll and the files in the skins directory.
The Errors screen works on this version. The reset errors and refresh button also work.
The info in the freeze frame area is not updated but I hope to have that fixed by the end of the week.
I am also working on the system tests page, I hope to have the tests ready soon.

As for the questions.

1. The O2 sensors only work in the cruise throttle area.
The way it works is this.
When the throttle is very low and stable (No throttle increase or decrease) the ECU will start to make trims based on the feedback from the O2 sensor.
These trims will make the air/fuel ratio cycle above and below 14.7/1 .
The narrow band O2 sensors can only tell if the A/F ratio is below or above 14.7/1. (See attached gif)
At 14.7/1 the sensor will do a big swing in output voltage then it goes almost flat.
The sensor voltage changes with the heat of the exhaust gas, this change based on heat is more than the amount it changes based on A/F ratio (Except at 14.7/1 when the voltage swing is large). Because of this swing based on heat you cannot tell if the A/F is 10/1 or 13.5/1.

The ECU just adds to it's short term fuel trim until the A/F goes to the rich side of 14.7/1, then is starts to subtract from the short term fuel trim until the A/F goes to the lean side of 14.7/1.
If you then give the bike a large amount of throttle it forgets the short term fuel trim and uses the values from the fuel map.

If the ECU finds that it always has a positive value in the short term fuel trim it will add a value to the long term fuel trim.
The long term fuel trim is used at all parts of the map but the ECU will only allow a small amount in the long term fuel trim.

If you adjust the fuel map at low throttle you will find that the ECU will try to trim that area back to 14.7/1.
This will cause it to put values in the long term fuel trim. Doing this will effect the adjustments you have made to other parts of the map.

Because of this I would say the O2 sensors should be turned off and the sensors unplugged from the loom.

2. You do not adjust the balance with the service tool, but you do use it instead of the carb tune kit.
If you look on the "Tests" page with the TuneBoy update above, you will see it shows both manifold pressures, you can look at this and adjust with the screws on the throttle bodies.

Thanks

Wayne





----- Original Message -----
From: Niclas Wendel
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Throttle position

Hi Wayne,

I just connected Tuneboy to my bike to update my maps a bit.
I’ll try a PC3 map I got from someone. I’ll also try to open the secondary flaps from 2000 rpms and up. Another RC8 rider with a Tuneboy has tried this with good results. I gave him the RT tune you sent me. I have also spread all the info you sent me on an RC8 forum here in Sweden and another one in the UK. I’ll post some feedback there after I have played a bit with it.

The guy that suggested me to do the flap changes also had a few questions that he was hoping you’d have answers to:
1. Should one use the O2 sensors or not? Do they adjust the mapping over the entire register? My guess is that it only changes the mapping on low revs, and I think it should be disabled. Does ticking it off in TuneEdit disable them? Or does it just take care of the error code if they’re removed?
2. He told me that KTM has the possibility to adjust the Throttle Bodies electronically, and he was wondering if TuneEdit will allow for doing this in the future? I told him I think it’s an entirely mechanical operation (I have done it myself on my bike with a Carb Tune and a screwdriver) and there’s no way this will be possible to do from TuneEdit. Correct? It was definately needed on both the RC8 and the Superduke though...

This guy has bought a logging tool from WBO2. But he hasn’t used it yet. He said he won’t need to carry a PC around when doing the logging.
I still think the TuneEdit logging will be easier to work with when using Tuneboy. I should be able to arrange something with a laptop in a backback to do the logging...

When I connected Tuneboy to the bike today I noticed it doesn’t register full throttle when I turn the throttle maximum. It gives 75.9 TP in TuneEdit and that’ll use both the 60 and the 80 TP rows in TuneEdit. That means I’ll never get the correct mapping. I’ll have to adjust the TPS’s before I can proceed with my Tuneboy mapping.
I figured out how to do this on the Superduke, and I’ll do it on the RC8 too. http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5731
I guesss I can still try the PC3 map I got, and the sec flap settings, but I won’t be happy until I have adjusted my TPS’s so they’re perfect.

All the best mate,
Nick

========================================
Here's the pic he's referring to:

Are you sure it's not just a variable resistor which changes resistance based on the O2 content of the exhaust gasses? If they actually generate a pulse then I can't see how a 1M ohm resistor will fool the ECU.

Sorry for my ignorance here - I've never claimed to know it all and there are many members on here a lot cleverer than me in this field (but I try my best)

We have the old shitty narrow band ones.

Check out the "DIY O2 Sensor Plug" thread.

Basically there's two sets of wires. There's two resistors in the plugs.

One set of wires is simply fed 12V to the heater element. That's the 1K Ohm resistor if my memory serves.
The other, smaller resistor, I'm assuming, emulates the built in resistance that the O2 sensors have got. Just like an electrical motor that can either consume (to make it run) or generate (when it's being ran) electricity, it will have an internal resistance (otherwise the result is two wires that have no connection and therefore cannot rotate the motor nor can it produce electricity when rotated).
The O2 plugs are not emulating the O2 sensors. If they did, they'd have to generate electricity. My guess is that the ECU checks for a specific resistance down the wires to see whether they're present. If it gets a certain value, it thinks everything is OK, and won't issue an FI warning light.

Check the other thread (should be linked from the first post in this one) for a very long and tedious path of discovery.

Just to report that the thing is just as thirsty as it was before disconnecting the sensors. More fun overall, easier everything. Once again many many thanks! Did 1,000km. Looking good..

Sadly I seem to have aquired another project; Fixing my bike, which obviously has to take priority.

Here are the connectors:


It's the connectors named 4P090WP-MT.

You can if you want but not needed. I left mine in place.

not for awhile, quite happy atm, but eventually i want to get a pc5, remove secondary butterflies with custom maps.
oh yeah still runs rich as a mofo.

Hoi,
i'am new here
and i just want to let you know that the O2 Sensors work very very well on my superduke R

i have them installed a couple of days ago and now today i tested them,
without resetting the ecu or doing something.. i just got on it, got for a test ride and its awesome to ride at low speeds (25a30 km/h) ,
it's not all gone but it is negligible.

thanks folks (especially TheJoker) for giving me this hint!!!


edit:

Akra round exhaust (no buffles)
NO akra map (standard KTM map) (will soon do the tuneecu mod)

Grtz KG

Good news!

Just bought these on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/o2-senso ... ccessories
worked out at £28 posted.
hope they dont take too long for delivery coming from greece?
just a thought my wifes jeep has a faulty o2 sensor would these work on a car? does anybody know?
or are the resistors vehicle specific!
cheers paul

[quote]Should work fine if it is a 4 wire sensor but the connector will probably be different. The resistance is about the same for all of them. The main difference is 2 wire- 3 wire or 4 wire sensors.
You should be able to use the resistors as in the how to tread to make your own if it is a 2 or 3 wire setup or the plug doesn't fit.
google the model O2 sensor to get more details on the wiring etc.[quote=]
cheers ktm guy worth a try the fittings look the same so it would be easy enough to give it a try when these arrive, dont think my diy skills are up to making my own!
nobody up my neck of the woods seems to use tune ecu,80 views of my post and no reply?
maybe one day i will get this loaded?
ive got the akro map with leo vince carbon cans sas removed dna filter 05 model the bike runs great apart from 54miles till gas light on as o2 eliminators only efect the lower rev range im assuming i will be ok to run without a remap
thanks again for the info.
pk1
ps dont know how to put your qoute in a box like you do?

i have something wierd,

i installed the O2sensors and it was gone for about 90%
now i installed the motobox and removed the sas and added the 2nd butterflies from MH
added the 08_SDR_Shade_fuel_-_Otto_ignition_-_motobox_-_flies_-_pipes map (unchecked the sas and O2)

and the jerkiness is back...at low speeds (20-30km/h)
and at idle the rpms goes up and down....
1000 to 1200 (+-)


pls help...

tests now done :
standaard map, still the same,
02 back on , still the same,...


thanks for help

you still need to have the secondary flies checked with the Motohooligan flies. If you remove them completely, then you uncheck.