GoGo
2009-06-11 23:28:00 UTC
Tri Valley Moto is a local shop out here in Livermore California. The day I met the owners they pointed me to an orange Superduke demo sitting in the lot and asked me "Would you take it for a few hundred miles and see what you think? See if you think you could race it?" I didn't know what to say. The bike didn't look like a racer. But since my days of spending every penny I earned to go racing on my own had long since past, my mind was very open to new opportunities. I extended my hand for the key.
Shops used to give me Ducatis to break-in on the street. I remember the excitement of getting the newest model like it was this morning. But the next thing I remember was how my body felt after two hundred miles finally turned on the clock. Agony.
The night I brought the Superduke home I asked my wife if she would like to go for a ride. We'd been having some down years since our racing had ended, so we both kind of took a break that night, and remembered the good times as we carved through the beautiful night mountain roads. The bike felt very soft to me, and the front a little steep, but it was a joy to ride. By the twentieth mile I began to wonder if racing this thing might actually work. We stopped at the mountain top and looked over the Silicon Valley where we live. It was like looking back at our lives in motion, as tiny lights from cars crawled their way across the night landscape. I told her about the offer to race this bike, and asked how she felt about it. In half of an instant she looked back at me and said "GoGo, you were born to race. And judging by the last twenty miles, that fire burns hot as ever. ... Let's do it"
Tracy may be a huge pain in my A$$ sometimes, but down deep she is all right. I dropped that orange Superduke back at the shop with 600 miles on it, and a huge frown on my face. I've been promised many things many times in racing. It's rare when deals actually pan out, especially in the US, and even more especially in THIS economy. For all I knew that six hundredth mile would be my last mile on a KTM. But the Tri Valley Moto guys came through. A month later we lined up last on a grid filled with 600 & 750cc inlines, in what was their last round of the year, but our first round of a new era in our racing career. Fifteen minutes later, on a bone stock Superduke, with a rusty old Ducati racer aboard it, we came through the checker in 9th place. Would have been seventh but our shift linkage broke with a lap to go, so we did our final lap in 5th gear.
No one, especially not myself, expected our little Superduke would do so well in it's first race for us. But it did. So Tracy did what she loves to do - she got half naked for a photo shoot - only difference was this one was orange instead of red. It didn't take long for that photo shoot to lead to another - only difference is this one got printed. Both she and the Superduke took the front cover of a local motorcycle publication by storm. Life was good going into last winter. We had bikes, girls, dreams of race wins again, and a promise of an RC8 for 09.
But as anyone on planet earth knows by now, last winter carried with it a pretty heavy reality check. Kawasaki tried pulling out of MGP, half the factories left the AMA Superbike series, and KTM pulled back just as well. By March 09 our vision of turning our Superduke race program into an RC8 program turned from "What day is it scheduled to arrive" to "I wonder what running one of those would have actually been like?"
But honestly, I didn't have a problem with running this Superduke at all. I love this bike. And I especially love running up under someone on a fully decked out 50 thousand dollar Ducati superbike. I sometimes find myself wising we left the horn attached..
With a pretty horrendous hp deficit, just about everyone was surprised as hell to see us come out onto the front straight, on the last lap of the twins race, in third place this March. Especially the guy on the 1098R. But before we could reach the checker he passed us by again. Not much we could do other than to flip him the bird. The rider was Pat Blackburn. He rides like an animal. We are actually friends (or at least we were until that last turn..)
This is where our story takes a turn. It's also were we need some help. In the hopes of closing the hp gap we got our hands on a race prepped (but abandoned) HMC KTM Superduke R. I loved the power this thing made but holy mother of disastrous setups. This bike throws me on the ground more often than my older brother did when he discovered I stole his ten speed bicycle to go trail riding. As well as we could push the front end of our standard Superduke around a turn, we now get to push this bike back to the pits - broken and bruised, crashed and burned.
I write about our racing a lot. We have a great time of it. I actually look forward to contributing to this site as well. In fact, because I am the consummate optimist that I am, we actually entered the Daytona Sportbike round during the MGP weekend at Laguna Seca this July 4th. This is great, this is exciting, and I can't wait to see Tracy's umbrella girl outfit for the race. But honestly, if we can't figure out how to get this R setup better, we don't stand a chance of finishing on two wheels.
Since this is a global forum, and these bikes seem to see way more track use overseas, I was wondering if anyone could offer up some setup advice:
How do you solve the choppy throttle condition? Mid throttle it's either full on, or full off. There seems to be NO subtle modulation possible.
What's the trick with these WP forks (and shock)? Does anyone offer a superbike internal hop-up kit, like Ohlins? Or am I dreaming..?
What heights do you guys run? I've had the chassis measured and it seems to have 7degrees of swingarm angle. That's basically flat. What do you guys do to improve that?
We had a really trick upper triple clamp made by an aerospace manufacturer out here. It lets us push the forks down as much as 20mm. This really helps the rake and trail. Originally we were at 23 for rake and 97 for trail. Now we're at 24 and 102, which feels MUCH better. But we're still off on spring rates.
Tomorrow is a test day for us, where we will try some new ideas. I would LOVE any tips, tricks, suggestions, or you can just post pics of KTM girls. Either is just as valuable to me...
Mr_Trecolareco
2009-06-12 00:14:00 UTC
I've been reading your adventures with the SD on the other forum. Glad to see you here sharing your experiences racing the SDR.
Unfortunately I'm a sunday rider and can't be of no good help to you
But I'm sure someone can share some track experience that you can apply to improve your R
Colonel_Klinck
2009-06-12 07:35:00 UTC
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Pig Benis
2009-06-12 07:39:00 UTC
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ShadeTheChangingMan
2009-06-12 08:56:00 UTC
good first post and introduction mate!
I'll tell you what I know...you prolly already know it but in the interests of not missing anything out (which I'm sure you'll appreciate) I'll say this: The forks seems to be very capable of a quality set up imho. BUT you have to bleed the bastards VERY regularly...for you I'd say bleed em after every hard session and every race. They get a bit of air building up inside them and undoing that little screw on the top of each fork lets it out. HWn I do this it transforms the forks from a bouncing disaster into a smooth damped fork just the way it was when I set it up. anything beyond that on forks is well beyond my knowledge but I hope it helps.
It seems you have maybe strayed far from the original set up on this machine with your geometry.....the only thing I would suggest is returning it to factory geometry and starting from there as a base. Now I'm defintely NO racer but the SD does sem to love the track and KTM aren't muppets in that department either....so maybe it's worth trying it how KTM intended it to be and moving from there? (forgive m if I'm stating the obvious or if you've already done this).
My final thought would be...are you riding/racing the SD lie it's a sports bike? Cos it aint. I think it needs a different approach to racing style/body positioning than a sportsbike....if you try and make it into what it's not then it wont do the job it was built for: cornering.
Good luck, I will be watching and enjoying your exploits....I think you'll win a lot of fans on here, myself included
No. 47
2009-06-12 09:26:00 UTC
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fridayman
2009-06-12 11:57:00 UTC
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Colonel_Klinck
2009-06-12 12:00:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-06-12 13:28:00 UTC
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No. 47
2009-06-12 15:55:00 UTC
I'm curious, has anyone else noticed that the R steering dampener lacks the fine adjustability of an Ohlins dampener? It seems to me that our ideal setting would be right between some of the big jumps in clicks on the WP dampener.
I'm so high maintenance...
Leonidas
2009-06-12 16:23:00 UTC
damper is shot or sh*t and how such a n underslung loose mounting, compared to my 996S OE and Ohlins replacement , actually works - either way, it does feel on/off to me in comparison.
Colonel_Klinck
2009-06-12 16:48:00 UTC
as mentioned over at BARF thread l have the WP kit in my bike, its expensive but at the moment l cant say l have any idea if it works, l am in the same boat as you, no idea what weight or how it was setup
you can get the kit from KTM Twins site or try these guys www.gpmotoservices.net
https://www.gpmotoservices.net/Competit ... Racing.php
good luck with the DS race
GoGo
2009-06-12 16:50:00 UTC
GoGo
2009-06-12 17:19:00 UTC
because of the SD cup rules they couldn't change a lot but they did not have the problem you are having GOGO, the said the bikes were very stable and never had front tuck issues
He said the main thing was getiing the spring/weight correct
they ran K tech valves in the front and the stock R shock ( which he confirmed is 9mm longer )
front
8mm BS 28mm RS
rear
28mm BS 43 RS
HSC out 1 3/4
LSC out 17 clicks
R 19 clicks
drswade
2009-06-12 19:39:00 UTC
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Ducati Pete
2009-06-12 22:10:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-06-12 22:19:00 UTC
GOGO call Jamie he seams like he has been around WP enough to understand what is going on ( he has some riders in the AMA/DMG SS class and will be at some rounds )
fridayman
2009-06-12 23:18:00 UTC
No we have not done one performance mod to this bike. In fact we have not even run it on the dyno yet. I hear people suggesting airboxes, special pcs, maps, etc. We have not one of them. All we have focused on is suspension. And to be painfully honest, we have gone backwards mostly.
As far as lap times go, compared to other machines: We have a class called F-1 here. It's basically 750 superbikes (or under - which brings in the 600s), or 1000cc twins. We used to win this class a lot when we ran the 999R. So far this year, on this Superduke R (set up quite horribly), we have run top three consistently (before crashing out on the front tyre).
I would love to tell you that the pic of us pushing the front turned out well, but it didn't.
This bike has loads of potential I think. Even in bone stock trim and setup ALL WRONG, we're at flat 44s at Infineon. Easily we will hit flat 42s once we get dialed in. To put that into perspective here are the fast times from the AMA Daytona Sportbike race last month at Infineon As you can see the Superduke R will be a solid top twenty against the pros on their AMA DSB spec 600s.
I actually took our Superduke R to a chassis guy here in Sonoma, after we crashed it so mysteriously, and begged him for good reasons behind our wrecks. I also video taped it. It's pretty educational (at least it was for me). Here is the video if you're interested. [/url]
Ducati Pete
2009-06-12 23:19:00 UTC
Ducati Pete
2009-06-14 21:30:00 UTC
GoGo
2009-06-14 21:34:00 UTC
Post up the old lady in her grid gear too!
Hope to see you with one of these on your tank soon.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a103/ ... Medium.jpg
Ducati Pete
2009-06-15 20:55:00 UTC
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Ducati Pete
2009-06-16 12:54:00 UTC
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doctypo
2009-06-16 15:09:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-06-16 18:49:00 UTC
Unless of course, a few established brands may be embarrissed
doctypo
2009-06-16 19:27:00 UTC
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drswade
2009-06-16 20:11:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-06-17 08:48:00 UTC
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Ducati Pete
2009-06-17 16:28:00 UTC
doctype, no we never measured both bikes back to back. My fault really. I guess I've done things backwards - experience a problem, go figure it out. Rather than - go figure it out, don't experience a problem..
I have mixed emotions about this project right now. Actually, as of yesterday afternoon.
When the AMA rang Tri Valley Moto and told them the KTM Superduke is not on the approved motorcycles list, so we can't use it, I pretty much figured it's time to call it a wrap on Laguna. What the AMA demanded in order to let our bike in was either a complete bike, or a laundry list of tiny incidental parts - "cylinder head complete (front or rear), throttle body assembly complete, air box assembly complete, cam shafts (1 intake, 1 exhaust), 1 piston and rod assembly complete (rings, pin, clips), 1 crankshaft, 1 transmission assembly complete. Service manual and parts book will be needed as well."
I figured the hard parts would be no problem for KTM to supply in time for Laguna, but the manuals - forget it. Just too much...
Then Mike Meisner (owner of Tri Valley Moto) called me yesterday and said "Guess what? KTM is sending them a complete bike.. Looks like we might make it after all."
Right then a stab of adrenalin shot through my arms as I realised how big this thing just got. Nothing like a little added pressure while you're setting you and your Superduke up to take on the likes of Jamie Hacking, I thought, "Careful what you ask for GoGo. You just might get it.."
And just to make things even MORE interesting - we can't use the R. It's got to be the Standard Superduke.
KAWABUNGA!!!!!!!!!
GoGo
2009-06-17 16:33:00 UTC
=====
1 More thing which I forgot to add last night. Be sure to remove the second&third gear power limiter by pulling the cable near where the battery sat. It's in the same connector as the neutral sensor. That made the bike a complete disaster with fueling on the on-off nonsense until it was pulled.
Cheers
Lowrance
2009-06-22 14:15:00 UTC
forum member Raf#83 worked for them, but not sure how often he comes on here.
as far as i know they have also raced their own (older model) superduke. could be worth asking.
Lowrance
2009-06-23 05:43:00 UTC
Thanks!
Menlo-SD
2009-07-01 14:40:00 UTC
I just read a thread about it on adv, understand why it's better.
More pics here in the installation instructions. Quite interesting, they even add a bigger bushing thing under the tank mount bolt, underneath.
Lowrance
2009-07-01 18:37:00 UTC
GoGo's lowsides have me wondering about the (possibly) over aggressive trail figures on the SDR. For you Euros, did any of you notice a more than typical amount of lowsides during the Superduke Battle series last year?
I'd love some suspension setting suggestions from someone who actually knows about the SDR in detail. Nobody here in Oregon is familiar with the bike at all. Conventional suspension wisdom gets thrown out the window with this bike it seems.
Menlo-SD
2009-07-01 23:42:00 UTC
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Menlo-SD
2009-07-06 23:56:00 UTC
Lowrance
2009-07-07 16:56:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-07-07 17:05:00 UTC
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Menlo-SD
2009-07-07 20:27:00 UTC
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Don Mega
2009-07-09 20:30:00 UTC
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GoGo
2009-07-09 20:36:00 UTC
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