had some new tyress put on the sdr so i thought id fill the tank up and go wear them in.....about 50 miles into it after a few wheelies and fooking about on my way home when i wound on in any gear it was a though the back tyre was spinning up! just put it down to it being a new tyre but it started doing it all the more but it turns out its not the tyre that spinning up its like the clutch is slipping! on the dash the needle jumps up then comes down and matched my actual revs. any ideas what this could be or has anyone had any experience with this?
tom
THEDUKE
2013-08-11 12:50:00 UTC
No. 47
2013-08-11 13:33:00 UTC
How many miles? Replaced my knackered plates at circa 60k.
The Gin Reaper
2013-08-11 13:48:00 UTC
Tom
Has it got a slipper clutch? If so what type and are the springs up to the job? Or is the stack height in spec? Klick and Bic both had problems with their clutches slipping due to slipper spring pressures not being man enough.
....and just a thought, has it just been serviced and did they use the right oil - because that can make the clutch slip as well.......
Has it got a slipper clutch? If so what type and are the springs up to the job? Or is the stack height in spec? Klick and Bic both had problems with their clutches slipping due to slipper spring pressures not being man enough.
....and just a thought, has it just been serviced and did they use the right oil - because that can make the clutch slip as well.......
Colonel_Klinck
2013-08-11 15:55:00 UTC
Whip the clutch cover off and see if its got a slipper fitted. While its off you may as well whip out all the plates and steels and measure the pack thickness.
My slipper (Sutter/KTM Hardparts) is very sensitive to pack thickness. But first symptom to show is loss of engine braking. It did slip on the power when I first bought it so had to upgrade the main diaphragm spring to stop it happening.
My slipper (Sutter/KTM Hardparts) is very sensitive to pack thickness. But first symptom to show is loss of engine braking. It did slip on the power when I first bought it so had to upgrade the main diaphragm spring to stop it happening.
THEDUKE
2013-08-11 15:59:00 UTC
it has only done 4400 miles so i can see it being worn out? my pal said to change the oil and see if that does the trick. im not as hands on as you klink so id end up fooking something up and ruining it
Colonel_Klinck
2013-08-11 16:11:00 UTC
Post missing.
THEDUKE
2013-08-11 16:51:00 UTC
just txt the guy who i bought it from and hes not sure if it has been fitted with a slipper clutch so its a daft question i know but how would i tell?
The Gin Reaper
2013-08-11 17:46:00 UTC
Post missing.
The Gin Reaper
2013-08-11 17:48:00 UTC
or you could do what klinck said and just take the cover off and have a look....
THEDUKE
2013-08-11 18:11:00 UTC
i think im going to do an oil change 1st see if that helps before i start taking the clutch out. 10w/50 you think?
Colonel_Klinck
2013-08-11 18:15:00 UTC
Hmm even with the slipper fitted I wouldn't try into first from 4th lol. Hard change downs to 1st still get the back end to step out with mine. Although if you do survive you've def got a slipper fitted
Just put the bike on it's side stand and undo the bolts holding the clutch cover on. If you take the bolts completely out remember which went in which hole. It will save some head scratching after there are 3 different lengths I believe. The O-ring can be used again, just leave it in the cover. Take a pic of the clutch and post it up. Clean the two surfaces and replace the cover and torque bolts to 10nm. Job done!
Just put the bike on it's side stand and undo the bolts holding the clutch cover on. If you take the bolts completely out remember which went in which hole. It will save some head scratching after there are 3 different lengths I believe. The O-ring can be used again, just leave it in the cover. Take a pic of the clutch and post it up. Clean the two surfaces and replace the cover and torque bolts to 10nm. Job done!
blb
2013-08-11 18:55:00 UTC
Could be the tyre spinning on the rim, worth a check? Rare I know but a possibility none the less
bic_bicknell
2013-08-11 19:06:00 UTC
Like Klnky says. Once you have had the clutch apart a few times you know how easy everything comes apart. Side stand, three or four bolts, cover off. No oil loss. Easy.
Post up pictures and we'll tell you what clutch you have. At 4000mls it's unlikely to be a worn out OE clutch
Post up pictures and we'll tell you what clutch you have. At 4000mls it's unlikely to be a worn out OE clutch
THEDUKE
2013-08-13 06:43:00 UTC
Sorted it lads....just did a full oil change from a 10w/40 to a 10w/50 motrex along with a new filter and its sweet as nut! not a sign of it slipping and where was no sign of wear from when it had.
moral of the story....dont put crisp & dry in a bike to save money before you sell it!
moral of the story....dont put crisp & dry in a bike to save money before you sell it!
THEDUKE
2013-08-15 11:19:00 UTC
This is the clutch klink...what you think?
turns out the oil didnt fix it...went out for a ride last night and 15 miles in once it was hot it statred slipping again.
The Gin Reaper
2013-08-15 11:29:00 UTC
Tom - where was the bite point of the clutch? when riding it if you pulled the clutch lever in just a small amount would it start to slip? With that many miles the clutch wont have worn enough to make it slip unless it really been abused. i just wonder if there may be a fault with the way the clutch is actuated? either an issue with the master or slave cylinder - how much oil is in the master cylinder reservoir?
THEDUKE
2013-08-15 11:32:00 UTC
Post missing.
bic_bicknell
2013-08-15 11:35:00 UTC
That's a bog standard Superduke clutch mate.
I'd whip out the plates and check the dimensions of the total stack to see whether it's in spec. Remember that if you take it all apart then count the plates out one at a time and keep them in the same order. Place them back in exact reverse as the bottom plate is different from the rest and you want to get them all back in the same place.
I'd whip out the plates and check the dimensions of the total stack to see whether it's in spec. Remember that if you take it all apart then count the plates out one at a time and keep them in the same order. Place them back in exact reverse as the bottom plate is different from the rest and you want to get them all back in the same place.
THEDUKE
2013-08-15 11:37:00 UTC
Post missing.
Sabre
2013-08-15 17:29:00 UTC
Here's what i'd do Tom:
A) I'd check the height of the stack mate as suggested (steels and friction plates) to see if they are in tolerance,if not replace them both + springs.
B) If "Yes" also check for warpage by placing the steels on a flat surface,if a steel is warped it'll stand out,if so replace,i'd replace the lot steels and friction and springs.
C) If they weren't warped i'd rub the steels down with wire wool as they look a tad tarnished to me,just to rough them up a bit and make em bite. Then i'd re-assemble everything and bleed the system again using fresh fluid.
If this fails to improve things I go and replace the steels,friction plates and springs and re-bleed the system
D) If it's still playing up i'd now go and get some mechanical advice from a mate who's a bike mechanic or give him the bike to sort.
Your bike appears to be very low mileage which might/should be a true reading? But just remember that when some folk got their clocks changed over after the misting problem,not all dealers so I've heard added the outstanding mileage to the new clocks so you might be double or triple whats on the clocks. I hope that's not the case,but it might be that the clutch is worn out and needs replacing.
PS i'm no mechanic it's just what i'd do!
A) I'd check the height of the stack mate as suggested (steels and friction plates) to see if they are in tolerance,if not replace them both + springs.
B) If "Yes" also check for warpage by placing the steels on a flat surface,if a steel is warped it'll stand out,if so replace,i'd replace the lot steels and friction and springs.
C) If they weren't warped i'd rub the steels down with wire wool as they look a tad tarnished to me,just to rough them up a bit and make em bite. Then i'd re-assemble everything and bleed the system again using fresh fluid.
If this fails to improve things I go and replace the steels,friction plates and springs and re-bleed the system
D) If it's still playing up i'd now go and get some mechanical advice from a mate who's a bike mechanic or give him the bike to sort.
Your bike appears to be very low mileage which might/should be a true reading? But just remember that when some folk got their clocks changed over after the misting problem,not all dealers so I've heard added the outstanding mileage to the new clocks so you might be double or triple whats on the clocks. I hope that's not the case,but it might be that the clutch is worn out and needs replacing.
PS i'm no mechanic it's just what i'd do!
THEDUKE
2013-08-15 17:40:00 UTC
cheers ginge, out of your list i have took the disks out and checked there not warped, measured the stack, i have wiped them down and am now soaking them to remove all the old oil and i have also bleed the system fully so i will coat them in the new 10w/50 tomorrow then re assemble them if its still happening then like you say i will just have to swap the plates....i dont mind really as its only £125 its just a bit shit to say its only done 4.5k in 5 years i have the mot receipts to prove it.
AGRO!
2013-08-16 01:44:00 UTC
Are you running the standard clutch leaver I have heard of clutch probs with some chinese brands.
Also check that the clutch resevior is not chocker block full of clutch fluid.
Also check that the clutch resevior is not chocker block full of clutch fluid.
THEDUKE
2013-08-16 06:51:00 UTC
Post missing.
THEDUKE
2013-08-16 17:50:00 UTC
right.....through process of elimination i have come to the conclusion it has to be the clutch, it simply cant be anything else! i will order the ebc plates monday and report back once fitted.
jmann
2013-08-16 22:13:00 UTC
Sorry about the photo but it is the only one I've got at hand BUT to me it looks like your clutch is missing the very first
plate. In my photo you can see that it meshes with the outer tangs. It is either missing or it has been assembled incorrectly
and is further down the stack. Either way it might explain why it's not working properly.
Good luck.
plate. In my photo you can see that it meshes with the outer tangs. It is either missing or it has been assembled incorrectly
and is further down the stack. Either way it might explain why it's not working properly.
Good luck.
Viking
2013-08-17 06:19:00 UTC
Remember the first and last plates are different too and like Jmann says they need to be in the right order.
THEDUKE
2013-08-17 11:24:00 UTC
What fluid have you used for the clutch ?
bic_bicknell
2013-08-17 15:28:00 UTC
Post missing.
No. 47
2013-08-17 18:20:00 UTC
Here's components for hard parts slipper using the OE clutch pack. Shows the number of plates and the dimensions of the stack.
THEDUKE
2013-08-18 10:00:00 UTC
Look up the parts fiche here - shows number, type and position of the different plates.
The Gin Reaper
2013-09-26 18:36:00 UTC
for anyone who has read the previous posts i have been having trouble with the clutch on my 2008 4k miles sdr fthat i bought from shawt78 on here. its as thought the clutch was spinning up in every gear (read the previous posts to see what i have done already) i ordered all new clutch plates, steels and springs from ebc and fitted them on monday night. went for a 30 min blast and everything was fine but it was usually 1 hr into a ride that it started to happen so i was going out for 2 hr tonight and as soon as i pulled out my garage it happened again straight away from cold? after 10 miles it was brilliant it never spun up and i was able to wheelie again then i got caught up in some traffic and from the lights is started again. fook knows whats happening with it......anyone got any other ideas of possible causes before i HULK SMASH?
AGRO!
2013-09-26 18:50:00 UTC
Post missing.
AGRO!
2013-09-26 22:05:00 UTC
I would also clean the oil jet.Don,t need to remove it.A piece of 0.10 steel guitar wire will be small enough to clean out the jet if you haven't got compressed air.I do both as regular maintainance.Cheers
Colonel_Klinck
2013-09-27 00:03:00 UTC
THEDUKE
2013-09-27 05:08:00 UTC
if the oil jet was blocked would it not make it hard to go into gear
lc4
2013-09-27 06:41:00 UTC
A blocked jet woud give you bragging rights though.
Could tell all your mates it has a dry clutch
Could tell all your mates it has a dry clutch
jmann
2013-09-27 06:51:00 UTC
I was told the oil jet is there to lubricate the push rod that activates the clutch. The plates and steels or lubricated by the fact they spin through the oil that is sat in the bottom of the engine cases throwing it everywhere.
THEDUKE
2013-09-27 07:05:00 UTC
Post missing.
AGRO!
2013-09-27 07:50:00 UTC
Just read through the posts and it sounds to me that the clutch is not fully engaging, eliminating the disks I would be looking at the slave or master cylinders.
Possibly the piston (only having one O ring and being a thin piston design ) may be coming back slightly sideways and wedging itself in the cylinder?
It could be that fluid is not returning back through the master cylinder into the reservoir ?
Possibly the piston (only having one O ring and being a thin piston design ) may be coming back slightly sideways and wedging itself in the cylinder?
It could be that fluid is not returning back through the master cylinder into the reservoir ?
The Gin Reaper
2013-09-27 08:11:00 UTC
I wonder what you mean by a cereal bowl. There's supposed to be some oil in there but it is then supposed to be scavenged by the oil pump Etc.
I've only ever seen a few tablespoons (or less) because its been scavenged while the engine is running then as soon as you shut down no more is pumped.
Essentially its a dry sump engine so the oil is supposed to be returned to the tank ASAP.
I wonder if it is possible that the clutch is filling up with oil because the oil pump is not working as well as it should. Do you see any signs of this? Eg does the
oil sight level go down when you start the engine and stay down? In asking this be aware that the oil level does move both up and down in the glass initially
but after a while stabilises.
Another thought: Previously others have suggested that the oil jet might be blocked and you've said it isn't. How did you ascertain this? Did you take it
out and look or did you just see oil where the jet should be. If in fact, the jet was totally missing, oil pumps through at a great rate of flow and would
fill the clutch chamber (and the pump might struggle) creating problems but not necessarily doing any damage. Is it possible the oil jet is missing
or that it has been bored out inappropriately by somebody trying to fix the agricultural shifts. In the back of my mind I have a vague recollection that
the guys on Orange Crush have suggested that slipping can occur if you open the jet too much.
Good luck.
I've only ever seen a few tablespoons (or less) because its been scavenged while the engine is running then as soon as you shut down no more is pumped.
Essentially its a dry sump engine so the oil is supposed to be returned to the tank ASAP.
I wonder if it is possible that the clutch is filling up with oil because the oil pump is not working as well as it should. Do you see any signs of this? Eg does the
oil sight level go down when you start the engine and stay down? In asking this be aware that the oil level does move both up and down in the glass initially
but after a while stabilises.
Another thought: Previously others have suggested that the oil jet might be blocked and you've said it isn't. How did you ascertain this? Did you take it
out and look or did you just see oil where the jet should be. If in fact, the jet was totally missing, oil pumps through at a great rate of flow and would
fill the clutch chamber (and the pump might struggle) creating problems but not necessarily doing any damage. Is it possible the oil jet is missing
or that it has been bored out inappropriately by somebody trying to fix the agricultural shifts. In the back of my mind I have a vague recollection that
the guys on Orange Crush have suggested that slipping can occur if you open the jet too much.
Good luck.
THEDUKE
2013-09-27 08:45:00 UTC
Post missing.
Nathan990
2013-09-27 08:54:00 UTC
Decided to check my jet today........
17000miles and the clutch 'slipped' at first when cold. Checked the jet...BLOCKED.
Easily blown through and reassembled. Whole job in a cold and quite dark garage took 40 minutes. DO IT! The job is easy and serves to protect the clutch...
I got this from another KTM site.
17000miles and the clutch 'slipped' at first when cold. Checked the jet...BLOCKED.
Easily blown through and reassembled. Whole job in a cold and quite dark garage took 40 minutes. DO IT! The job is easy and serves to protect the clutch...
I got this from another KTM site.
jmann
2013-09-27 09:00:00 UTC
Post missing.
THEDUKE
2013-09-27 09:35:00 UTC
Post missing.
lc4
2013-09-27 09:59:00 UTC
Been looking at this thread a few times, been a while. Hope you get it sorted soon!
Like others have said above, have you pulled the clutch slave off yet?? Maybe there's some gunk in there causing the piston to not return correctly? Worth a look.
Like others have said above, have you pulled the clutch slave off yet?? Maybe there's some gunk in there causing the piston to not return correctly? Worth a look.
THEDUKE
2013-09-27 10:24:00 UTC
Well I wouldn't take the pump apart unless I was really convinced that it wasn't working - "if it aint broken don't try to fix it".
Over on
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14626&start=2950 jasperjdog has got a transparent clutch
cover so I've asked him about how much oil one could normally expect but given that you believe your friend had drained the sump I guess this is all a Furphy...
So ... perhaps the notion that the clutch is still slightly disengaged because the slave piston is sticking is not such a bad hypothesis.
Have you checked that the rod is not bent or too long? Is the mount block under the slave cylinder original and the correct thickness?
Over on
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14626&start=2950 jasperjdog has got a transparent clutch
cover so I've asked him about how much oil one could normally expect but given that you believe your friend had drained the sump I guess this is all a Furphy...
So ... perhaps the notion that the clutch is still slightly disengaged because the slave piston is sticking is not such a bad hypothesis.
Have you checked that the rod is not bent or too long? Is the mount block under the slave cylinder original and the correct thickness?
jmann
2013-09-27 18:48:00 UTC
Post missing.
THEDUKE
2013-09-30 06:59:00 UTC
Thanks to everyone who has offered help on sorting this but i think the beast is back
The Gin Reaper
2013-09-30 07:37:00 UTC
Post missing.
No. 47
2013-09-30 08:24:00 UTC
Sound like there's too much oil in your clutch though.
THEDUKE
2013-09-30 09:03:00 UTC
Post missing.